An issue with live friends games

This is the home for suggestions for site improvements, changes to house rules, and new variants.
Forum rules
It's okay to suggest new rules variants in this forum, but proposing new *maps* should be done in the linked "New Map Variant Proposals & Voting" subforum.

An issue with live friends games

Postby Jack007 » 26 Dec 2018, 13:23

Just noticed a flaw with the live game feature.

It seems not possible to setup a live friends game, as it asks you for setting a password, and then won't appear at the live game announcement on the home page.

Although it is possible to setup a friends game, there's no easy link to the game from the homepage (with the chat). The link to the full list of live games shows only when a live game is actually advertised on the home page. So if my live friends game is the only live game at the moment, neither the game nor a link to the live games list will show.

Would be nice if live friends games would show up on the homepage, too. As friends games have advantages for making happen live games. They can be set shorthanded by CDing of not used powers, and also if somebody inadvertently unsubscribed, or NMRed, they can come back to the game.

The suggested changes would be: or to allow password protected live games to appear on the homepage, or to allow friends games to be setup without password. (Or both.)

What is the opinion of others to this matter?

Jack
Jack007 (xxxx.) unbanned for dubious reasons
Member of the Honorables
There is no greater solitude than the samurai's,
unless it be that of the tiger in the jungle… perhaps…
-bushido
User avatar
Jack007
Premium Member
 
Posts: 946
Joined: 08 Mar 2014, 17:34
Location: Tyrolia (Kitzbühel)
Class: Star Ambassador
Standard rating: 1238
All-game rating: 1555
Timezone: GMT+1

Re: An issue with live friends games

Postby asudevil » 28 Dec 2018, 02:16

Friends games need to keep their password so that people don't accidentally stumble into them not realizing they are a friends game.

As for them showing on the main page. The issue then is how do people get that password. Is there a reason you can't set it up as unranked? Do the features you want not apply to those games (I honestly don't know...that's why Im asking.)
Captain FANG, forum team championships WINNER
Part of the surviving nations of WW4/Haven

Unless I am in the cheater's subforum. 99% of what I say is NOT as a mod.

Want to play fantasy football this season here...Reigning Champion
User avatar
asudevil
Premium Member
 
Posts: 16446
Joined: 18 Jul 2011, 02:20
Class: Star Ambassador
Standard rating: 1351
All-game rating: 1497
Timezone: GMT-7

Re: An issue with live friends games

Postby super_dipsy » 28 Dec 2018, 07:03

Just as background, let me explain why it works the way it does today. This is not saying we shoud not change it, but it may make the situation clearer.

You can set up Live Friends games, as jack says. They just do not appear on the Home Page. You can simply tell your friends about it when you give them the password, and then they know it is there. If you want to open it to more people you can of course advertise it on the forum with the password, but again people can go and find it once they have the password.

The reason Friends games do not appear on the Home Page is that there is only room for ONE game on the home page, and as soon as you put a game that requires a password on the Home page you you are taking that slot with a game that needs a password. Anyone seeing it cannot join it unless they know what the password is. There is no way to give that password reliably to everyone - for example you may provide it in the Chat box but quite a lot of people have the chat box turned off. You could provide it on the forum but then that is no different from the case given above of a normal Friends game that you advertise on the forum, ie that does not need to use the Home Page slot.

There are a number of ways to try to get a game going from the Home Page without the normal 7 players. You can set it up shorthanded, or as a Hundred game, or as an Escalation game for example (although the last two are premium only).

I think part of the frustration the suggestion is trying to address is the fact that when someone fails to confirm, they cannot return to the game. That could be changed for live games, of course, but people have to think carefully if that is what they want. When a Live game on the home page goes into confirmation, it sounds an alert and is intended to check everyone is ready to play live. If people have wandered away, and do not return in time to meet the 5 minute timer, then the argument is they are going to be just as unreliable in actually playing the live game. The assumption (rightly or wrongly) is that if you join a Live game, you are now sitting down at the table ready to play. You have to keep near your device for however long is left on the timer in the hope enough other players join. The fact that you miss the 5 minute confirmation window means you obviously are no longer sitting around the table.

We can certainly change that, of course. The only downside would be that someone who thinks they want to play Live but can't be bothered to stick with the game while it fills up and confirms will constantly cause it to drop back to waiting by not confirming and then rejoin only to do the same thing again. If they aren't patient enough to pay attention the first time, why would they be the second/third/... time?
User avatar
super_dipsy
Premium Member
 
Posts: 11678
Joined: 04 Nov 2009, 17:43
Class: Ambassador
Standard rating: (1000)
All-game rating: (956)
Timezone: GMT

Re: An issue with live friends games

Postby Jack007 » 28 Dec 2018, 09:34

asudevil wrote:Friends games need to keep their password so that people don't accidentally stumble into them not realizing they are a friends game.

As for them showing on the main page. The issue then is how do people get that password. Is there a reason you can't set it up as unranked? Do the features you want not apply to those games (I honestly don't know...that's why Im asking.)


Friends have 2 or 3 features that unranked games don't have.
- you can rejoin after a drop out.
- you can set powers of your choice to CD (civil disorder) at setup time and play with the remaining powers shorthanded.
- you can surrender without sanctions (well, not sure about that), which is helpful in live games, where people meet who have differing time constraints.
Jack007 (xxxx.) unbanned for dubious reasons
Member of the Honorables
There is no greater solitude than the samurai's,
unless it be that of the tiger in the jungle… perhaps…
-bushido
User avatar
Jack007
Premium Member
 
Posts: 946
Joined: 08 Mar 2014, 17:34
Location: Tyrolia (Kitzbühel)
Class: Star Ambassador
Standard rating: 1238
All-game rating: 1555
Timezone: GMT+1

Re: An issue with live friends games

Postby Jack007 » 28 Dec 2018, 09:49

@dipsy: Yes I understand both reasons, to make (non-live) friends game generally password games, and also not to show password protected games on the homepage.

Friends games would serve well as live games, too, beside of the other ranked and unranked games.

Maybe it can be solved by letting fall the password obligation in friends games, as soon the live checkbox is ticked on the create game page.

As you say, at moment there's almost no possibility to advertise a live friends game.
Jack007 (xxxx.) unbanned for dubious reasons
Member of the Honorables
There is no greater solitude than the samurai's,
unless it be that of the tiger in the jungle… perhaps…
-bushido
User avatar
Jack007
Premium Member
 
Posts: 946
Joined: 08 Mar 2014, 17:34
Location: Tyrolia (Kitzbühel)
Class: Star Ambassador
Standard rating: 1238
All-game rating: 1555
Timezone: GMT+1

Re: An issue with live friends games

Postby NoPunIn10Did » 10 Jan 2019, 20:43

I think there's an easier solution to way to get people to your game: a permanent URL.

Potential format:
Code: Select all
https://www.playdiplomacy.com/game_permalink.php?game_id=XXXXX



We need to make sure that every game has a permanent, easily-accessible URL exposed (possibly linked with a little chain icon beside the game's name, with a hover-over that says "Permalink") that will always redirect you to the most useful page for that game based on its current state. Then we could just copy that URL and use it to advertise the game, get replacement players, etc. You wouldn't need to care about whether something is visible on the home page.

Where that permanent URL would redirect to would vary:

  1. If the game has not started yet, it isn't full, and you aren't already signed up for it...
    • Then it will redirect you to the "Join Game" search page, with only that game's ID number as a search parameter (thus providing the game as the only search result).
  2. If the game has not started yet and you are signed up...
    • Then it will redirect you to the "My Pending Games" page.
  3. If it hasn't started, it is full, and you aren't in it...
    • Then it will redirect you to the game_play_details page for that game.
  4. If it is currently in progress, it is full, and you aren't in it...
    • Then it will redirect you to the game_play_details page for that game.
  5. If it is currently in progress, it is not full, and you aren't in it...
    • Then it will redirect you to the "Join Game" search page, with only that game's ID number as a search parameter.
  6. If it is currently in progress, and you are one of the players...
    • Then it will redirect you to the game_play page for that game.
  7. If the game is complete...
    • Then it will redirect you to the game_play_details page for that game.
  8. If the game never started because it expired or was deleted...
    • Then it will redirect you to a page that says something to that effect.
NoPunIn10Did
Moderator (Forums only)

Variant GM, Designer & Collaborator
User avatar
NoPunIn10Did
Premium Member
 
Posts: 1832
Joined: 17 Aug 2011, 00:17
Location: North Carolina
Class: Ambassador
Standard rating: 1000
All-game rating: 1404
Timezone: GMT

Re: An issue with live friends games

Postby Jack007 » 12 Jan 2019, 15:06

NoPunIn10Did wrote:...
We need to make sure that every game has a permanent, easily-accessible URL exposed (possibly linked with a little chain icon beside the game's name, with a hover-over that says "Permalink") that will always redirect you to the most useful page for that game based on its current state. Then we could just copy that URL and use it to advertise the game, get replacement players, etc. You wouldn't need to care about whether something is visible on the home page.
...


There's exactly the problem: where/how to advertise? Unfortunately is the home page the only practical place where to advertise in a live context, so I guess we do have to care about the visibility of the game on the home page.

I tested it out, though theoretically possible, in practice it's almost impossible to start a live Friends Game, even not among good friends. I would welcome this to change.

(But you are right, when creating a game one must copy the join game link before joining himself, because afterward he would see the game only in the Pending Games tab anymore.)
Jack007 (xxxx.) unbanned for dubious reasons
Member of the Honorables
There is no greater solitude than the samurai's,
unless it be that of the tiger in the jungle… perhaps…
-bushido
User avatar
Jack007
Premium Member
 
Posts: 946
Joined: 08 Mar 2014, 17:34
Location: Tyrolia (Kitzbühel)
Class: Star Ambassador
Standard rating: 1238
All-game rating: 1555
Timezone: GMT+1


Return to Suggestions

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron