Premier League 2016-17

Anything you want to talk about.

Re: Premier League 2016-17

Postby Carebear » 19 Oct 2016, 17:22

sjg11 wrote:
Carebear wrote:
sjg11 wrote:And. being Arsenal, we'll probably end this moment of optimism with a 1-0 defeat at home to Ludogorets thanks to an own-goal off Nacho Monreal's backside.

Naw, it will be Koscielny. It is always the guy you least expect.

True, although Koscielny has been consistently excellent for at least four seasons now.

While pessimistically predicting our own folly, let me indulge in a bit of schadenfreude to point out that it won't necessarily be his fault:



sjg11 wrote:
Carebear wrote:With Debuchy gone, we do have a backup issue with RB.

I'm assuming the plan for a Bellerin injury is that Mustafi moves to RB as he did for Germany at the Euros and Gab/Mert move to CB. That would definitely be a worse scenario than playing Debuchy/Jenkinson/Chambers or any other reserve RB we've had over the past 4 or 5 years.

Worse or better?


sjg11 wrote:
Carebear wrote:Frankly, I curious about Ramsey's return. Does he push out Iwobi or Cazorla? Personally, I think Cazorla will become cover and maybe even surplus to needs.

We have plenty of good midfield options. I think we can mix and match depending on our opposition. For example, the creativity Santi provides from the centre of midfield is massively useful at home to teams like West Brom while the fact he's so lightweight means he's not a good choice at the Etihad for example. The only player who doesn't really seem to fit is El Neny. He's sort of an all-rounder like Xhaka and Ramsey but isn't as good as either of them. Santi and Coquelin remain useful because they offer something different and are a little bit more specialised.

Wenger is not known for naming lineups to address tactics/strategy posed by varying teams. As such, I would prefer a more aggressively active player as a regular in his position. Call me old school, but Cazorla is just not a defensive midfielder and not strong enough to get into the offensive setup. So, he is cover (probably for Ozil) and maybe even surplus.

Elneny was a January acquisition. The best that was available at the time (for the money ;) ). The later acquisition of Xhaka was an upgrade. I think it is worthwhile to see how things play out with contracts, injuries, player role alignment, and form. It could be that Elneny has a strong future.


sjg11 wrote:
Carebear wrote:This brings up an interesting point that has been curious to me for some time. MU over the years had aging players that didn't mind not playing, but came on infrequently to fill gaps for injury and such. We never seem to have that. Would have loved to see a Rosicky or Flamini hang about as squad players.

I agree on Rosicky who remains an incredibly classy player and would remain an excellent squad option. Less so on Flamini, in my view his disciplinary record was so poor that it was difficult to justify him playing unless it was a complete emergency situation.

Until the recent acquisitions of Elneny and to a lesser extent Xhaka (not a true DM), we didn't have much cover in the way of a DM. With a team sorely lacking in mettle the past several years, Flamini's intensity was much needed. There was a reason that Wenger brought him back into the squad after originally allowing him to train. So, while I agree he has on-field disciplinary lapses, having someone like that around the squad I think helps with intensity.
You can have my last supply center, when you pry it from my cold dead hands.

Spam Ambassador Wannabe

Officially Sanctioned Site Gadfly (meaning the negative kind of sanction)
User avatar
Carebear
 
Posts: 2389
Joined: 12 Nov 2013, 04:26
Location: In the fingerhold
Class: Star Ambassador
Standard rating: (1573)
All-game rating: (1589)
Timezone: GMT+8

Re: Premier League 2016-17

Postby sjg11 » 19 Oct 2016, 23:13

Carebear wrote:
sjg11 wrote:
Carebear wrote:Naw, it will be Koscielny. It is always the guy you least expect.

True, although Koscielny has been consistently excellent for at least four seasons now.

While pessimistically predicting our own folly, let me indulge in a bit of schadenfreude to point out that it won't necessarily be his fault:

Well we managed not to lose 1-0 and actually won. I'm trying to think back to the last time we properly smashed someone in Europe before tonight. Braga in 2010 maybe or am I forgetting someone?
sjg11 wrote:
Carebear wrote:With Debuchy gone, we do have a backup issue with RB.

I'm assuming the plan for a Bellerin injury is that Mustafi moves to RB as he did for Germany at the Euros and Gab/Mert move to CB. That would definitely be a worse scenario than playing Debuchy/Jenkinson/Chambers or any other reserve RB we've had over the past 4 or 5 years.

Worse or better?

Significantly worse, Mustafi is worse than Bellerin at RB and Gab/Mert are worse than Mustafi at CB.

sjg11 wrote:
Carebear wrote:Frankly, I curious about Ramsey's return. Does he push out Iwobi or Cazorla? Personally, I think Cazorla will become cover and maybe even surplus to needs.

We have plenty of good midfield options. I think we can mix and match depending on our opposition. For example, the creativity Santi provides from the centre of midfield is massively useful at home to teams like West Brom while the fact he's so lightweight means he's not a good choice at the Etihad for example. The only player who doesn't really seem to fit is El Neny. He's sort of an all-rounder like Xhaka and Ramsey but isn't as good as either of them. Santi and Coquelin remain useful because they offer something different and are a little bit more specialised.

Wenger is not known for naming lineups to address tactics/strategy posed by varying teams. As such, I would prefer a more aggressively active player as a regular in his position. Call me old school, but Cazorla is just not a defensive midfielder and not strong enough to get into the offensive setup. So, he is cover (probably for Ozil) and maybe even surplus.

Elneny was a January acquisition. The best that was available at the time (for the money ;) ). The later acquisition of Xhaka was an upgrade. I think it is worthwhile to see how things play out with contracts, injuries, player role alignment, and form. It could be that Elneny has a strong future.

Ok, I thought we were discussing what our midfield options would be in an ideal set-up. I'd prefer Ramsey to play every match than Santi to play every match. But, I think Santi is our most useful DM when playing the more defensive sides in the League as Cazorla can serve as a deep-lying creator which, when combined with Ozil and a quick, skillful strike force works effectively against defensive teams. Hence why we've scored so many goals recently. Moreover, I do think you underestimate Santi's defensive abilities, remember the win at the Etihad a couple of seasons ago when Santi was excellent defensively.

At the same time I'd like to see two of Xhaka, Ramsey and Coquelin playing against the top teams (if Xhaka/Ramsey turns out to be an effective partnership then preferably them) simply because Santi isn't powerful enough to play there against the best teams.

I think my issue with El Neny is that, beyond simply providing depth in an emergency, I'm not sure why he should play ahead of Xhaka and Ramsey. Since Santi and Coquelin play completely different roles to Xhaka and Ramsey I get why we would play either of them ahead of the other two for tactical reasons. That just doesn't apply for El Neny (who was, admittedly, a steal for under 10 million).
sjg11 wrote:
Carebear wrote:This brings up an interesting point that has been curious to me for some time. MU over the years had aging players that didn't mind not playing, but came on infrequently to fill gaps for injury and such. We never seem to have that. Would have loved to see a Rosicky or Flamini hang about as squad players.

I agree on Rosicky who remains an incredibly classy player and would remain an excellent squad option. Less so on Flamini, in my view his disciplinary record was so poor that it was difficult to justify him playing unless it was a complete emergency situation.

Until the recent acquisitions of Elneny and to a lesser extent Xhaka (not a true DM), we didn't have much cover in the way of a DM. With a team sorely lacking in mettle the past several years, Flamini's intensity was much needed. There was a reason that Wenger brought him back into the squad after originally allowing him to train. So, while I agree he has on-field disciplinary lapses, having someone like that around the squad I think helps with intensity.

Oh, I agree and releasing Flamini last summer would have been a terrible decision and I thought the decision to bring him back on a free was the right one. I'm not sure I agree with regards to the decision to release him this summer though. I think it was pretty much the right time to leave. In my view, we have enough depth at this point in at CDM for Flamini to have been released. It's a different story with CAM where we only really have Ozil and Santi currently so Rosicky should have been retained for more time.
One of the people in charge of the Mafia forum.
Telleo wrote:The mafia forum, to them,
Sir SJG's known as a gem,
He writes a good game,
and runs it the same,
Oh what a perfect GM!

Come on Arsenal!
User avatar
sjg11
 
Posts: 17082
Joined: 24 Dec 2010, 15:30
Class: Diplomat
Standard rating: (908)
All-game rating: (899)
Timezone: GMT

Re: Premier League 2016-17

Postby sjg11 » 22 Oct 2016, 18:02

Genuinely livid, there are no excuses for not beating Middlesbrough at home.
One of the people in charge of the Mafia forum.
Telleo wrote:The mafia forum, to them,
Sir SJG's known as a gem,
He writes a good game,
and runs it the same,
Oh what a perfect GM!

Come on Arsenal!
User avatar
sjg11
 
Posts: 17082
Joined: 24 Dec 2010, 15:30
Class: Diplomat
Standard rating: (908)
All-game rating: (899)
Timezone: GMT

Re: Premier League 2016-17

Postby Carebear » 22 Oct 2016, 18:06

sjg11 wrote:Genuinely livid, there are no excuses for not beating Middlesbrough at home.

It was a statuesque performance.

Sanchez was off today and should have been pulled.
You can have my last supply center, when you pry it from my cold dead hands.

Spam Ambassador Wannabe

Officially Sanctioned Site Gadfly (meaning the negative kind of sanction)
User avatar
Carebear
 
Posts: 2389
Joined: 12 Nov 2013, 04:26
Location: In the fingerhold
Class: Star Ambassador
Standard rating: (1573)
All-game rating: (1589)
Timezone: GMT+8

Re: Premier League 2016-17

Postby sjg11 » 22 Oct 2016, 19:52

I also feel like this game shows why Caz at CDM is crucial to our attack in these games. We needed Santi today.
One of the people in charge of the Mafia forum.
Telleo wrote:The mafia forum, to them,
Sir SJG's known as a gem,
He writes a good game,
and runs it the same,
Oh what a perfect GM!

Come on Arsenal!
User avatar
sjg11
 
Posts: 17082
Joined: 24 Dec 2010, 15:30
Class: Diplomat
Standard rating: (908)
All-game rating: (899)
Timezone: GMT

Re: Premier League 2016-17

Postby Carebear » 23 Oct 2016, 17:38

sjg11 wrote:I also feel like this game shows why Caz at CDM is crucial to our attack in these games. We needed Santi today.

Granted, he may have been a better choice than Elneny had he been available. But, he wasn't and frankly I am not terribly impressed with Cazorla in that position. IIRC, he played the full match at Burnley and we had a similar issue, only winning in the very last moments on a goal that likely should have been disallowed.

A couple of things stood out:
  • I have never, ever, been a Walcott fan. But, there were moments in this match where he played great defense. Even if the team did not play especially well, Walcott still put in the effort. If he stays healthy and keeps up this form, he could be a difference maker this season.
  • Sanchez becomes a black hole at times. He over dribbled and made many atrocious passes this match. He needed to be moved out to the flanks or pulled.
  • Cech saved us a point. While Ospina or Szczesny might have made those saves, Cech clearly keeps us in these matches.
  • Traore is a Drogba like player. We could use someone like that, a player who can muscle through tight situations. We don't have that. We are graceful greyhounds.
  • Mustafi took good initiative to try and create things. But, needs to make better passes; they don't all need to be over the top.
  • In these situations Coquelin looks out of his depth. Too many safe passes and not enough incisiveness.
  • The most pronounced thing I saw was lack of movement and crowding spaces. This caused too many lateral passes. We ended up playing largo instead of allegro.

The first thing that comes to mind is something that I have mentioned before, namely that Wenger lacks flexibility when creating lineups. Everyone knew how 'Boro would play. I think we should have put Elneny as the sole DM, moved Walcott upfront with Sanchez, and had Ox start on the wings, 4-1-3-2.

The second thing that comes to mind is fatigue. Maybe we needed to risk a bit more against Ludogorets and had more squad rotation. This could be one of the reasons for the statuesque performance and not tactical naivete.

Finally, when to team plays like this, you need to pull the ball back to midfield to reset and bring them out of their compactness. This creates more space in which to work. Also, movement off the ball does not need to be the sole place to put the ball. Let movement create space behind and put the ball there. At least two critical scoring chances could have been made if the pass instead went behind the moving player to someone filling the space he created. This is all fundamental knowledge for attacking this kind of defense, we should be smart enough to attack in this manner. We didn't.
You can have my last supply center, when you pry it from my cold dead hands.

Spam Ambassador Wannabe

Officially Sanctioned Site Gadfly (meaning the negative kind of sanction)
User avatar
Carebear
 
Posts: 2389
Joined: 12 Nov 2013, 04:26
Location: In the fingerhold
Class: Star Ambassador
Standard rating: (1573)
All-game rating: (1589)
Timezone: GMT+8

Re: Premier League 2016-17

Postby Carebear » 19 Nov 2016, 04:40

Man-Mou 2 Arse-Arse 1 :-|
You can have my last supply center, when you pry it from my cold dead hands.

Spam Ambassador Wannabe

Officially Sanctioned Site Gadfly (meaning the negative kind of sanction)
User avatar
Carebear
 
Posts: 2389
Joined: 12 Nov 2013, 04:26
Location: In the fingerhold
Class: Star Ambassador
Standard rating: (1573)
All-game rating: (1589)
Timezone: GMT+8

Re: Premier League 2016-17

Postby Carebear » 19 Nov 2016, 13:39

He actually named a tactical lineup. :o

Sanchez is fit. Maybe there is hope...
You can have my last supply center, when you pry it from my cold dead hands.

Spam Ambassador Wannabe

Officially Sanctioned Site Gadfly (meaning the negative kind of sanction)
User avatar
Carebear
 
Posts: 2389
Joined: 12 Nov 2013, 04:26
Location: In the fingerhold
Class: Star Ambassador
Standard rating: (1573)
All-game rating: (1589)
Timezone: GMT+8

Re: Premier League 2016-17

Postby sjg11 » 19 Nov 2016, 22:31

Personally I think Wenger waited too long to make a sub there, United's goal was coming. Happy with the result, less so with the performance. How we concede that goal with 2 CDMs playing I don't know.
One of the people in charge of the Mafia forum.
Telleo wrote:The mafia forum, to them,
Sir SJG's known as a gem,
He writes a good game,
and runs it the same,
Oh what a perfect GM!

Come on Arsenal!
User avatar
sjg11
 
Posts: 17082
Joined: 24 Dec 2010, 15:30
Class: Diplomat
Standard rating: (908)
All-game rating: (899)
Timezone: GMT

Re: Premier League 2016-17

Postby Carebear » 20 Nov 2016, 13:59

sjg11 wrote:Personally I think Wenger waited too long to make a sub there, United's goal was coming. Happy with the result, less so with the performance. How we concede that goal with 2 CDMs playing I don't know.

From the start, ManUre looked to kick us off the ball. The first few touches we were clattered into and it continued for most of the first half. It was so obvious. It set the tone for the match, the players rushing their passes. The referee looked oblivious.

Four things come to mind with these tactics, we need to be mentally prepared for such tactics (altering our play only as necessary), referees also need to be prepared to stop it from the start with an early warning, we need to retaliate in a similar fashion (not be clumsy about it), and finally, we should consider adding it to our repertoire for matches against top sides (if the referees are not going to prevent it).

In the second half, MU did not clatter us as much. We were move active, but it felt like the ball was unluckily just always out of our reach.
You can have my last supply center, when you pry it from my cold dead hands.

Spam Ambassador Wannabe

Officially Sanctioned Site Gadfly (meaning the negative kind of sanction)
User avatar
Carebear
 
Posts: 2389
Joined: 12 Nov 2013, 04:26
Location: In the fingerhold
Class: Star Ambassador
Standard rating: (1573)
All-game rating: (1589)
Timezone: GMT+8

PreviousNext

Return to Off-topic

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests