PDL 1, Round 3, Game 1. AAR

[Strategus]

How is this still a can of worms? A win is a win, a draw is a draw and loss is a loss. Why is that difficult to accept?

Because Calhamer considered a draw a shared win.

And Calwhotsit is the boss, obviously. Games are played to win. If you can't win, you draw. If you can win, you bloody well should, because that's what playing games is all about., Right? If you don't play to win, what's the point? Cumbaya? Haleluja!

[boldblade]

How is this still a can of worms? A win is a win, a draw is a draw and loss is a loss. Why is that difficult to accept?

Because Calhamer considered a draw a shared win.

Oh right. I forgot you were the expert on Calhamer lmao!

[GruGloG]

So thats a lot of pages to sip through. This game was both very frustrating and interesting in the same time, I am very "glad" I was eliminated before the real shit hit the fan (I mean, substitute and returning + shock surrenders and non league members, a real shame for such an interesting game). Maybe Ill give my short opinion on the game when I have read all the pages, maybe I wont. At least I got to take part of an actual working 6vleader alliance, that has to be a once in a lifetime experience.

[Jack007]

How is this still a can of worms? A win is a win, a draw is a draw and loss is a loss. Why is that difficult to accept?

Because Calhamer considered a draw a shared win.

And Calwhotsit is the boss, obviously. Games are played to win. If you can't win, you draw. If you can win, you bloody well should, because that's what playing games is all about., Right? If you don't play to win, what's the point? Cumbaya? Haleluja!

That's a bit of narrow thinking, a bit one-dimensional, a bit dogmatic. But I have you else in memory, from WDC. More differentiated, and not so enraged, if you know what I mean. A very sympathetic man. It must be the forum which polarizes, likely. The hasty thrown text bits.

Many, many games are played not to win, but e.g. for fun, for mutual benefit, for relationships, for pastime, for literature, for group experience, for making love, for role-playing, for learning, etc etc etc.

If you look for a game where you can only win or lose, you may have a look at Go. No draws possible by definition. And one of the most sophisticated games of the world. I really recommend it.

Diplomacy (not the game, but real diplomacy) results in most of the cases - if not always - in a compromise. In a solution of a conflict which all parties can or have to live with. It's about sharing.

And here, in the game of Diplomacy you HAVE the option to share a win. This exactly makes it so attractive to play. And that's what Greggybear did: he shared the win with Charleroi. For whatever reason he had, about which WE haven't to judge. Because we are only the dogs strolling around a winner, hoping for a bone or something else that is left and thrown at the pack. But Greggybear is still the winner of the game. No matter with how many he shares his win. And on a personal, inter-human plane, HIS win even grows when he shares it. Didn't we learn that when we were young? And enjoyed life based on that wisdom ever since?

If not, there's always Go. Go is a difficult game, full of ancient wisdom. When you are good at Go, you are a real winner, a big winner, a winner of an uncheatable game btw. Only, that you cannot share your win. Which may turn you lonesome a la longue. But if you're not disturbed by that, then Go is the game for you. Try it out.

Yours.. Jack

[Strategus]

You are missing my point. Go is boring. I think you are mistaken when you say you can share a win. You can share a draw. That's what a draw is. And from a community perspective, you can get just as much from a game by playing to win. Mutual respect for one. The expectation for all of you rivals to play their best. How does letting someone get a draw they didn't deserve gain any respect? And like I say. Nothing I say is from any kind of enragement. Logic. And my opinion.

[mjparrett]

Man i took my eye of this thread didn't I! I don't know if you guys are still following, but some nonsense has been written and some of it should be addressed. In fact Pootle's slight praise of me stabbing her in the other stand in game is about the best thing written

1. Surrendering is not part of the game. Of course it isn't. It is even mentioned in the site rules that you shouldn't do it, because you are letting people down. Of course real life things happen and these cannot be avoided. But a surrender in general, is not good. And comparing it to king making is just horseshit. And I think people deep down know that.
2. Greggy did nothing wrong. GPD/Strategus (to a lesser extent) and Verse (moreso) make some silly points. It is not bang out of order. The man could barely see, what would you have him do? Quit? Guess at some orders and hope he clicked on the right fucking unit?! He got Pootle to play for him (as previously mentioned in more than 1 game). Yes she is a very good player. I'm sorry did you want him to get a moron in to sub for him so you could win? Did Pootle contribute to the success of France? Absolutely. But was she the sole reason? No, Greggy got to a good position all by himself and suggesting otherwise is sour grapes.
3. Here is the important part though. He PM'd me BEFORE he made the decision and asked my thoughts and opinions. Considerate that is. GPD; you are right you don't have to explain yourself here if you don't want to. Although for some reason I don't think it is a real life situation that caused you to quit (although i I am wrong I apologise). But the fact is you just quit, with no warning to me to get a sub, no PM or anything. You refuse to explain yourself here, I think because 'bear has annoyed you. Well I haven't (I hope!), yet you don't even give me an explanation at all or anything. And yes, because of that, the PDL died. Are you totally to blame? Of course not. But the PDL 1 was the one I thought I could keep going and would have more reliable people in. You quitting without any warning, and then acting bullish about it instead of even sending me an apology or anything, made me lose the last of the faith I had.

The PDL was meant to enhance the fun of this wonderful game/site. But if it leads to conversations like this, then I am glad I have ended it, and can just play invitational games with people I enjoy and respect. For those who want to keep an eye on a good game, I tried to start my PDL 4 game as a "friendly". Not all the original players due could make it so I have two very worthy stand ins. Strategus and Verse can probably ignore because the 'bear is in and that might make them angry. But for everyone else it is shaping up to be a belter...

[Strategus]

Capture.PNG (1.44 KiB) Viewed 224 times

It is definitively a part of the game. We even have a button for it.

[Don Juan of Austria]

Capture.PNG

It is definitively a part of the game. We even have a button for it.

/rage quit. Or as we say in RL, flipping the board.

[Pootleflump]

The PDL was meant to enhance the fun of this wonderful game/site. But if it leads to conversations like this, then I am glad I have ended it, and can just play invitational games with people I enjoy and respect. For those who want to keep an eye on a good game, I tried to start my PDL 4 game as a "friendly". Not all the original players due could make it so I have two very worthy stand ins. Strategus and Verse can probably ignore because the 'bear is in and that might make them angry. But for everyone else it is shaping up to be a belter...

Watching - even though I never got an invite..... sniff...... Good luck all.

[greggybear]

The PDL was meant to enhance the fun of this wonderful game/site. But if it leads to conversations like this, then I am glad I have ended it, and can just play invitational games with people I enjoy and respect. For those who want to keep an eye on a good game, I tried to start my PDL 4 game as a "friendly". Not all the original players due could make it so I have two very worthy stand ins. Strategus and Verse can probably ignore because the 'bear is in and that might make them angry. But for everyone else it is shaping up to be a belter...

Watching - even though I never got an invite..... sniff...... Good luck all.

Dont worry, Poorle... if I get to the point where I need a boost, I'll definitely get you to come in and sub.