Push and Pull Mafia Game Thread Game Over - Mafia Victory!

Moderators: Zoomzip, Telleo, bkbkbk, condude1, sjg11

Re: Push and Pull Mafia Game Thread Day 7

Postby Telleo » 06 Feb 2017, 00:19

dodgy56 wrote:
Telleo wrote:The point of the plan was to prevent a final death from bypassing the final three. I have prevented the bypassing of a final three in a different way. Deviation =/= noncompliance.

Except it wasn't really. Sjg's plan for tonight involved me and sub both pulling crunkus to kill.him. There wasn't going to be a final.3. You're statement here is just wrong.


Dude, read between the lines for like two seconds.

The point of the plan was to prevent the scum from causing a death that bypasses the final three.

Are you really representing that you didn't think that was the entire purpose of the plan?
Harb wrote:Telleo is gender-bent Chaucer from A Knight's Tale

Moderator of the Mafia Subforum!
Proud Owner of a limited-edition Medal of Idiotic Valor.
"Russian Roulette is not the same without a gun." -Lady Gaga.
Third time's the charm.
User avatar
Telleo
 
Posts: 5473
Joined: 03 Jun 2013, 17:39
Class: Ambassador
Standard rating: (951)
All-game rating: (908)
Timezone: GMT

Re: Push and Pull Mafia Game Thread Day 7

Postby Telleo » 06 Feb 2017, 00:58

Dodgy, on Day3, you promised Crunkus that your engagement would be improving from that point onward. Do you believe you have lived up to that promise?
Harb wrote:Telleo is gender-bent Chaucer from A Knight's Tale

Moderator of the Mafia Subforum!
Proud Owner of a limited-edition Medal of Idiotic Valor.
"Russian Roulette is not the same without a gun." -Lady Gaga.
Third time's the charm.
User avatar
Telleo
 
Posts: 5473
Joined: 03 Jun 2013, 17:39
Class: Ambassador
Standard rating: (951)
All-game rating: (908)
Timezone: GMT

Re: Push and Pull Mafia Game Thread Day 7

Postby Subotai45 » 06 Feb 2017, 01:03

I can't find a way to make a night plan that does what Sjg's would have so I think I gotta go with lynching telleo.
User avatar
Subotai45
 
Posts: 12449
Joined: 08 Oct 2012, 22:55
Location: Pitt
All-game rating: 4127
Timezone: GMT-9

Re: Push and Pull Mafia Game Thread Day 7

Postby Telleo » 06 Feb 2017, 01:05

Subotai45 wrote:I can't find a way to make a night plan that does what Sjg's would have so I think I gotta go with lynching telleo.


You're lynching me out of fear of my scum game, which I can understand and all, but you should really be trying to actually read my engagement and Dodgy's and come up with a REASON to kill me.

You owe me a case.
Harb wrote:Telleo is gender-bent Chaucer from A Knight's Tale

Moderator of the Mafia Subforum!
Proud Owner of a limited-edition Medal of Idiotic Valor.
"Russian Roulette is not the same without a gun." -Lady Gaga.
Third time's the charm.
User avatar
Telleo
 
Posts: 5473
Joined: 03 Jun 2013, 17:39
Class: Ambassador
Standard rating: (951)
All-game rating: (908)
Timezone: GMT

Re: Push and Pull Mafia Game Thread Day 7

Postby Telleo » 06 Feb 2017, 01:10

Dodgy, you have at various times in this game represented a town read of Crunkus, of me, and of Sjg.

Do you have moments that you think demonstrate your shifting opinion of those three players that leads to you accept a plan that demands the death of all of them? I'd appreciate quotes. I would not appreciate "I'm too busy to deal with this game when Telleo's obviously scum."
Harb wrote:Telleo is gender-bent Chaucer from A Knight's Tale

Moderator of the Mafia Subforum!
Proud Owner of a limited-edition Medal of Idiotic Valor.
"Russian Roulette is not the same without a gun." -Lady Gaga.
Third time's the charm.
User avatar
Telleo
 
Posts: 5473
Joined: 03 Jun 2013, 17:39
Class: Ambassador
Standard rating: (951)
All-game rating: (908)
Timezone: GMT

Re: Push and Pull Mafia Game Thread Day 7

Postby Telleo » 06 Feb 2017, 01:12

And to be clear, I'm not looking for quotes of ME or of CRUNKUS or of SJG doing things that change your mind. I'm looking for quotes of YOU changing your mind.
Harb wrote:Telleo is gender-bent Chaucer from A Knight's Tale

Moderator of the Mafia Subforum!
Proud Owner of a limited-edition Medal of Idiotic Valor.
"Russian Roulette is not the same without a gun." -Lady Gaga.
Third time's the charm.
User avatar
Telleo
 
Posts: 5473
Joined: 03 Jun 2013, 17:39
Class: Ambassador
Standard rating: (951)
All-game rating: (908)
Timezone: GMT

Re: Push and Pull Mafia Game Thread Day 7

Postby dodgy56 » 06 Feb 2017, 01:16

Telleo wrote:Dodgy, on Day3, you promised Crunkus that your engagement would be improving from that point onward. Do you believe you have lived up to that promise?

yes I do.
you never play your hand.
You play the man across from you

The man who can smile when things go wrong has thought of someone else he can blame it on

Drug Cheats mafia now in signups
User avatar
dodgy56
 
Posts: 2474
Joined: 29 May 2013, 04:34
Class: Diplomat
Standard rating: (833)
All-game rating: (764)
Timezone: GMT+10

Re: Push and Pull Mafia Game Thread Day 7

Postby dodgy56 » 06 Feb 2017, 01:17

Telleo wrote:And to be clear, I'm not looking for quotes of ME or of CRUNKUS or of SJG doing things that change your mind. I'm looking for quotes of YOU changing your mind.

This will have to wait til tonight when I have access to a computer
you never play your hand.
You play the man across from you

The man who can smile when things go wrong has thought of someone else he can blame it on

Drug Cheats mafia now in signups
User avatar
dodgy56
 
Posts: 2474
Joined: 29 May 2013, 04:34
Class: Diplomat
Standard rating: (833)
All-game rating: (764)
Timezone: GMT+10

Create Your Own Country

Postby Subotai45 » 06 Feb 2017, 01:22

Telleo wrote:
Subotai45 wrote:I can't find a way to make a night plan that does what Sjg's would have so I think I gotta go with lynching telleo.


You're lynching me out of fear of my scum game, which I can understand and all, but you should really be trying to actually read my engagement and Dodgy's and come up with a REASON to kill me.

You owe me a case.


Sjg and Crunkus both told me to do this.

They're confirmed town, so they aren't being malevolent and trying to lead me astray. Even if mistaken, they're coming from a genuinely town place.
I doubt they are mistaken.

They are both much better at this than I am, and in the time since they both endorsed this plan, nothing has happen that I think would make them change their read. The sole event of note was a severely questionable deviation on your part. I know that you're trying to argue that it's non-indicative, but I don't agree with that. I think you were a) trying to take down one last person before you go, and possibly b) shake things up enough to convince one of us to kill the other. I guess you've decided to target dodgy for that plan.
User avatar
Subotai45
 
Posts: 12449
Joined: 08 Oct 2012, 22:55
Location: Pitt
All-game rating: 4127
Timezone: GMT-9

Re: Push and Pull Mafia Game Thread Day 7

Postby Telleo » 06 Feb 2017, 01:27

Buuuuuut anyway. Let's play a game I like to call "Dodgy's the last scum."

First of all - he's got 11 pages of posts. He spent three days not participating in the game, then promised more participation, and didn't deliver. Ask yourself - what has Dodgy done in this game? What arguments has he been involved in? What are some good points that he's made? What are some bad points that he's made?

Scum like to live in the null space. They don't necessarily want town points (though they'll take them if offered), they want to not be noticed. Dodgy has done his best to just not do anything noteworthy.

He townreads Crunkus and me here, but when Sjg question's him on the details of WHY he like that engagement, his answer is:

dodgy56 wrote:
sjg11 wrote:Dodgy, what intrigues you about Telleo's questioning of Crunkus?


it just has nuances that i totally wouldn't have considered, Ill admit i was confused af at first but as it developed it made more sense as to what telleo was trying to acheive/ascertain


That is to say, nothing.

Sjg follows up, and Dodgy responds:

dodgy56 wrote:
sjg11 wrote:
dodgy56 wrote:
it just has nuances that i totally wouldn't have considered, Ill admit i was confused af at first but as it developed it made more sense as to what telleo was trying to acheive/ascertain

Ok, what is Telleo questioning and do you think Telleo is right or wrong on this topic?


my understanding of it is that telleo is questioning when crunkus voted and why. The inference seems to be that as scum Crunkus wants to drop his vote at the best possible time to look town and when he actually voted doesnt seem to match up with what he was saying in thread. Ie that that he if was certain HM was lieing he should have voted then, not wait til when it looked townie to join the wagon which was after a lie (which had already been revealed as a lie) was proven to be a lie. And telleo is looking at why town Crunkus wouldnt have voted when it was revealed as a lie but would after it was proven.

I think she is probably wrong, but not likely scum even if she is wrong


That is to say... nothing. He restates my argument, but doesn't mention why that makes me look good as town or what the basis of his thoughts or his read are on.

Next:

He spends most of D1 talking to Crunkus about my plan, demonstrating a keen understanding of why it is the best plan. Then MHS0 proposes the vigging plan, and Dodgy's suddenly all for it:

dodgy56 wrote:
sjg11 wrote:If happymeal turns up TOWN:
People for Telleo's plan: sjg11
People for vigging the guy with the most blue votes: dodgy56


i prefer the vigging plan
will come back with a blue vote soon



No explanation of why. No thought process. Just "This is better." Even though he's shown that he already understands my plan and the potential benefits.

Then, later:

dodgy56 wrote:actually i have changed my mind about which plan i prefer.

i forgot to take into account that the person being vigged cant push/pull themselves so would be aiming somewhere with zero idea what any other player will be at. it actually could lead to 2 kills at night.


im in favour of tellep plan


Still no thought process. Just "two kills might happen." His explanation is that he thought everyone was going to reasonably just be targeting themselves in a vig-kill scenario. Honestly wish I'd noticed this on D1, because it's bullshit.

When he finally decides to explain some of his thoughts on the matter, here's what we get:

dodgy56 wrote:am fully caught up now

@Telleo - i originally supported the vig as i felt it was a better way or working out our numbers than your plan. Then i realised there was a downside i hadnt seen and changed back to supporting your plan regardless of how HM flips.


Notice how this doesn't line up at all with either his demonstrated understanding of my plan, or his earlier justification for switching back to it? Now he feels like the vig plan actually gets us an understanding of our numbers.

Sjg calls him on not doing anything, and he just says "I'm answering questions, I'll get to doing real work later." Then he doesn;t.

He spends the rest of D2 not saying anything until he votes Smith here:

dodgy56 wrote:so first things first, Smith needs to die to today.

im having a hard time seeing a number of things he has done from a town POV but my biggest issue is thinking the game is mechanically locked yet wanting to follow a vig plan that doesnt fit with that idea.

Other thoughts atm.

ZZ and sf1 are advocating that smith is town. i dont really understand why at this point. ZZ has been more vocal about it than sf1.

@ ZZ you mention trying to figure out if you want to stitch sjg up. What exactly do you mean? i mean it has connotations that are scummy. Like you're trying to set him up. I mean if youre scum it makes sense trying to set up a townie. I don't get what the townie side is. More specifically the issue i have with that is i dont get why you trying to figure out if you want to? if youre town and think he's scum why not just do it?

more soon


This ignores literally the entire conversation that Crunkus and I have been having with MHS0 regarding his lack of process, and nails him for a mechanical issue.

He goes after ZZ for being scummy because obviously Scum ZZ says right out in the thread that he's planning to frame Sjg. What's Dodgy trying to accomplish here? He's trying to make it look like he's asking questions and being involved. It's just not sincere.

ZZ responds, and Dodgy responds again. Notice that even though ZZ makes the effort to explain his townread on MHS0, Dodgy's uninterested in pursing that thought, and is content to just sit on a vote. No thought process. No work. No effort.

Meanwhile, I call Dodgy on his shitty MHS0 vote, and get this back:

dodgy56 wrote:
Telleo wrote:
dodgy56 wrote:so first things first, Smith needs to die to today.

im having a hard time seeing a number of things he has done from a town POV but my biggest issue is thinking the game is mechanically locked yet wanting to follow a vig plan that doesnt fit with that idea.


Really? That's your #1 problem? Because that's like problem 10 for me. What do you understand to be the case on MHS0 right now?


i understand that there are multiple issues, but to me this is the one im having the most trouble alligning with town smith.

The other main issues as i understand them are:
- smith has avoided dealing with a large number of peoples concerns and has focussed on crunkus.
- smith is largely just waving away the issues presented by crunkus as unreasonable and resorting to personal attacks.
-issues related to a meta read on sf from very early d1 that is hardly indicative


An explanation of the other points being made, and no explanation of why the point that matters least is the only one Dodgy even mentions in his vote. He doesn't even acknowledge that MHS0's engagement is an issue in the vote, but here it's just not as important has "he proposed a vig plan I don't like."

Now D3 starts, and he finally starts talking to Crunkus about how awful his engagement has been so far, promising to improve. Note that at this point, he's averaged 2 pages of posts per day. That ratio does improve throughout the game (evidence: he's got 11 pages, and we're on day 7).

He spends some time claiming to be okay with being lynched on the grounds that if he gets to MYLO his activity makes him an easy target. Well... it makes you an easy target cause it makes you a scummy target. Get at me.

Look! Dodgy makes a post!

Except he spends a lot of time not saying anything "I was townreading Sjg, but then he did this thing that might be sketch but then as I read him more I still like him." This is just words, and it's meaningless noise designed to look like Dodgy's actually thinking critically about someone's alignment. He isn't.

Here's Dodgy's first post regarding SF1, in which he votes her. Not much in the way of actual thinking. He restates my problem with SF, then Sjg's, then Crunkus/mine, then says:

Overall I have several issues with SF1 which are yet to be adequately addressed.


This is vote justification, pure and simple. He's not thinking, he's voting and telling us why.

dodgy56 wrote:I think the exchange above [Telleo inserts: between Crunkus and Keir re: Keir's engagement] sums up why keir has been in a null space for me.its not what is being said its the stuff that isn't being said. I'll hopefully have a more detailed thought on that soon.


But he doesn't.

Here's Dodgy objecting to justy, who just took over ZZ's spot, calling ZZ confirmed town:

dodgy56 wrote:
justy wrote:Writing those excuses-for-summaries about what I felt Crunk's and Telleo's cases were, I realized it is time to call it for night.

I started my re-read on Keirador. Got half-way through.

First impression
-there was more Keir than I expected
- town points for working as mediator D1 (and now D3). First between Telleo and Crunkus, then between Telleo and SF. I think there was also Crunkus and Smith somewhere, although I don't think I got to D2 yet.
- I like reading Keir. His posts usually make sense and has me looking for like button


I can't really blame Jordan for waiting how SF responds to his defences before switching his vote elsewhere. And as I can't wait and see what happens, I'm going to switch to Sjg myself. Got this tip from confirmed town Zoomzip, who is good at this game. Sjg hasn't been able to participate D3, and hasn't really given me anything new to read him for. So, even though he had some town things going for him, I'm weighing the unanswered questions from Zip, and the oddities in his handling of Smith meta good enough reasons to vote him.



I dont see how zz has been confirmed town? Yes I'm townrrsding him/you but it's not confirmed as far as i know.
I also dislike that vote on sjg and I have explained my townread on him. Please engage with that and explain why I'm wrong if you expect me to vote sjg. That being said he needs to get in here and help the town, today has been yond poor by his standards.


But sure, I'M the one who object to too many townreads.

Anyway, D3 ends with Dodgy not so much as glancing at Jordan, because he just doesn't care.

---

I need to leave now. I'll be here tomorrow and maybe late tonight, and I'll pick up with my ISO of Dodgy beginning D4 when I return. In the meantime, Sub, I encourage you to think critically about this game, and not to let fear rule your heart.

Because as we all know:

"Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to unnecessary scum wins." -Yoda, a long time ago.
Harb wrote:Telleo is gender-bent Chaucer from A Knight's Tale

Moderator of the Mafia Subforum!
Proud Owner of a limited-edition Medal of Idiotic Valor.
"Russian Roulette is not the same without a gun." -Lady Gaga.
Third time's the charm.
User avatar
Telleo
 
Posts: 5473
Joined: 03 Jun 2013, 17:39
Class: Ambassador
Standard rating: (951)
All-game rating: (908)
Timezone: GMT

PreviousNext

Return to Game Threads

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 32 guests