Mafia CLVI: Charity Mafia: -- Pure of Heart Win!

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Re: Charity Mafia: Day 1

Postby Telleo » 08 Dec 2016, 22:57

Happymeal wrote:
Harb wrote:
sjg11 wrote:Would a mass reveal be a particularly strong town opportunity in this game? I imagine it would be the same trade-off hat you would get with a normal role reveal, namely that you lose your most powerful roles in return for gaining a little bit more information about stuff.

I'm not sure that focusing on a mass reveal would have been in ZZ's mind when designing the game... simply because I don't think that a mass role reveal is a particularly good strategy for us.


Why wouldn't it be? We would actually get more information than normal. Scum either reveal roles truthfully and then are forced into pro-town uses of their roles or lie and are found out as powers don't play out as expected. Power roles are revealed and town can govern prioritizing which roles get protected. Any defection from plan or irregularity ends up revealed relatively quickly, producing yet more information. Instead of single claimants, EVERY role has a giver/receiver check. Harb says he gave Role A to sjg, SJG confirms he received results indicating he was Role A. If there's no way to screw around with ordering that system, it seems like town produces a lot of information pretty quickly.


Wait, how do we even know if scum were given roles? Do you think that scum having roles is such a guarantee that we should actually follow through with this?


I mean, if the scum WEREN'T given roles, this would be an awesome plan for us. We'd have them nailed on D2, when whatever they claimed as cover didn't come true. Not to mention, they wouldn't be able to safely claim anything without the possibility of being counterclaimed.
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Re: Charity Mafia: Day 1

Postby Telleo » 08 Dec 2016, 23:00

Harb wrote:
Happymeal wrote:Wait, how do we even know if scum were given roles? Do you think that scum having roles is such a guarantee that we should actually follow through with this?


I tend to think scum were given roles. Even though they likely have roles thought, the mass reveal is likely something that has been anticipated and won't provide the value we would think in a pure "pass your power to the next guy (not a sexist pronoun thing, just saying Telleo doesn't get one cause it'll make her ornery and she's at her best when she's ornery) and he always gets it" system.


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Re: Charity Mafia: Day 1

Postby Zoomzip » 08 Dec 2016, 23:01

GM ANNOUNCEMENT:

DAY 1 will be extended by 12 hours to 11 December 2016 at 1100 GMT
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Re: Charity Mafia: Day 1

Postby Telleo » 08 Dec 2016, 23:06

Harb wrote:Fuddin! - I've been remiss. Welcome. I see you've already gotten the "please don't forget to tell us what you're thinking" advice. I'll add my support to that. Even the wolves among us likely want to help you figure out the game and enjoy yourself more than anything else.* Even if you just want to say that you agree with what someone is saying or want to add that you're interested in the answer to a question someone has asked, speak up. You're asking questions early, so it seems like you're on the right track anyway. Have fun!


*Unless you're scum. In which case we're going to murderize you in the near future. Sorry bout that.


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Re: Charity Mafia: Day 1

Postby Telleo » 08 Dec 2016, 23:12

Question for the crowd:

Does your role PM include information about who becomes aware of the powers being granted?
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Re: Charity Mafia: Day 1

Postby Harb » 08 Dec 2016, 23:16

Telleo wrote:Question for the crowd:

Does your role PM include information about who becomes aware of the powers being granted?


This question has infosec implications. I don't think it's a good question for everyone to answer. Certain types of roles are going to be more obviously ones that players must become aware of.

Other answers in progress.
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Re: Charity Mafia: Day 1

Postby condude1 » 08 Dec 2016, 23:20

Happymeal wrote:
condude1 wrote:1. If roles are randomly assigned, reveals are a lot less useful. If roles are not randomly assigned, revealing gives us an added way of getting reads: How townie that person's role is.
2+3. Unless the person's a cop who's told their investigation's not infallible, or a framer, or anything else relating to investigations. It's that "Or whatever" that I'm talking about.

What if the framer chooses the cop then, which wastes it, or any of the other plethora of roles we're sending at a target? To counter negative roles, we should spread out our roles, such that they can't be mass-uselessified.



1. Fair point, but I'm wondering how we would ascertain that information when you're so against revealing these roles that are town negative. The only way to comprehend whether or not is the case is to know which town members possess what powers (which you have been an opponent of this entire time). I don't know how this position can be in line with whether or not the question is relevant. You basically ask a question that you oppose getting the answer to. Why do you contradict yourself?

2. Somewhat of a fair point, but my purpose has been to optimize our good roles so that the damage done at night to town is reduced by a significant amount. The night game in this one is very detrimental to the town if we don't play it right starting day

I believe this post was responded to, but I haven't been able to read up to there and my next class starts soon, but how do you know the amount of mafia in this game? Where di you receive that information?


1. I'm not "so against" revealing town-negative roles. I am against it, but could be easily persuaded to change my mind. I asked the question because someone might have a ready-made answer (I'm thinking a townie with a framer role or something). They just says "Nope, roles are alignment-irrelevant, that's all I'm saying on this topic", and we have nice info with not much of a downside (one townie reveals they have a negative role, no biggie).

2. Yeah, but that's why we want whatever info we can get today, without compromising infosec. My plan just gives us an idea of what we're working with, but no specifics. That means the mafia has an idea of which roles are in the game too, but no idea whether someone's a good kill or not.

Also, I've been functioning under the assumption of 7-2 also. It's a no-brainer ratio for this size of game, although I guess 6-3 is possible with a ton of pro-town roles (heck, even 2-3 investigative roles and alignment relevant roles can easily compensate for the extra scum). The most anti-town I've gone is 9-4 in aSiTD, and it was an annihilation of the mafia, due to a few well synergized roles.

So yeah, 7-2 is a good assumption I think.
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Re: Charity Mafia: Day 1

Postby condude1 » 08 Dec 2016, 23:22

Telleo wrote:Question for the crowd:

Does your role PM include information about who becomes aware of the powers being granted?


Not responding to this. I feel it would injure infosec if I were to reveal this information.
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Re: Charity Mafia: Day 1

Postby sjg11 » 08 Dec 2016, 23:28

Telleo, what did you think of my points on condude?
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Re: Charity Mafia: Day 1

Postby condude1 » 08 Dec 2016, 23:31

sjg11 wrote:Telleo, what did you think of my points on condude?


You still have some? I thought you recently unvoted? Generally that implies that you don't feel your points are particularly alignment relevant.
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