Diplomacy of Ice & Fire III: Looking for Players

7 player Game of Thrones variant introduced to playdip by Presser84, with updated rules from Aeschines. GMed by Aeschines.

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Re: Diplomacy of Ice & Fire III: Looking for Players

Postby StarkAdder » 10 Dec 2018, 20:29

I love this idea too! Like the Persian Emperor in Greek City States!

The White Walkers appear in Year 1 in the Lands of Always Winter but don't move until Year 2 (following the book/TV series timeline), then they get gradually 3 units off-map until they choose to bring them into play. To make things fair for House Stark, they can enter anywhere on the map, not only in the North. The only real way to stop their eventual conquest of all of Westeros is for all Houses to unite and push them back.

What say you, Aeschines?
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Re: Diplomacy of Ice & Fire III: Looking for Players

Postby Aeschines » 10 Dec 2018, 22:39

Bahaha! I love the idea of getting the White Walkers involved! Would they operate as just another player? The Empire player's modified win condition seems to often throw a wrench into the lategame of Greek City States. So while a solo-only condition seems appropriate, in actual practice it could be not-ideal. What about NPC White Walkers? That could keep the game interesting without breaking it (plus it doesn't seem like negotiating with White Walkers should be possible!). A third option might be to have the White Walkers be run by a human but one who isn't allowed to diplomacize with the players. I did that for the monster in Great Expeditions Diplomacy and it seemed to work pretty well (though that was a bigger map with more room to move around in).

What do you think, Condude1 & StarkAdder?

Another (unrelated) change that I was thinking of introducing to DoI&F is that the game can only end in a solo or a two way draw where the two houses have a marriage, control King's Landing & the Red Keep and collectively own a certain number of SCs (kind of like the dual win in 1812 Overture).
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Re: Diplomacy of Ice & Fire III: Looking for Players

Postby condude1 » 10 Dec 2018, 23:11

Aeschines wrote:Bahaha! I love the idea of getting the White Walkers involved! Would they operate as just another player? The Empire player's modified win condition seems to often throw a wrench into the lategame of Greek City States. So while a solo-only condition seems appropriate, in actual practice it could be not-ideal. What about NPC White Walkers? That could keep the game interesting without breaking it (plus it doesn't seem like negotiating with White Walkers should be possible!). A third option might be to have the White Walkers be run by a human but one who isn't allowed to diplomacize with the players. I did that for the monster in Great Expeditions Diplomacy and it seemed to work pretty well (though that was a bigger map with more room to move around in).

What do you think, Condude1 & StarkAdder?

Another (unrelated) change that I was thinking of introducing to DoI&F is that the game can only end in a solo or a two way draw where the two houses have a marriage, control King's Landing & the Red Keep and collectively own a certain number of SCs (kind of like the dual win in 1812 Overture).

I have 2 ideas:

1. In 1907 (I chose '07 because 7 seasons of the show before the whitewalkers come. It can be modified for balance), the white walkers come. Players need to permanently commit a number of scs to defense from the walkers. If fewer than half the centres on the board are committed, everyone loses. VC changes to account for missing centers.
2. Special units called whitewalkers slowly build in the "Beyond the Wall" space. Unlike other units, they can pack more than 1 unit onto the same tile: Endless in Beyond the Wall, say a max of 3 or 4 elsewhere. One walker is added each season, including builds, but not retreats, until at some point they all spill out, swarming the map. Win a solo before then, or unite against the up to 3 strength walkers.

Or something to do with another player. Those are my quirky ideas though!
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Re: Diplomacy of Ice & Fire III: Looking for Players

Postby Aeschines » 11 Dec 2018, 00:11

condude1 wrote:
Aeschines wrote:Bahaha! I love the idea of getting the White Walkers involved! Would they operate as just another player? The Empire player's modified win condition seems to often throw a wrench into the lategame of Greek City States. So while a solo-only condition seems appropriate, in actual practice it could be not-ideal. What about NPC White Walkers? That could keep the game interesting without breaking it (plus it doesn't seem like negotiating with White Walkers should be possible!). A third option might be to have the White Walkers be run by a human but one who isn't allowed to diplomacize with the players. I did that for the monster in Great Expeditions Diplomacy and it seemed to work pretty well (though that was a bigger map with more room to move around in).

What do you think, Condude1 & StarkAdder?

Another (unrelated) change that I was thinking of introducing to DoI&F is that the game can only end in a solo or a two way draw where the two houses have a marriage, control King's Landing & the Red Keep and collectively own a certain number of SCs (kind of like the dual win in 1812 Overture).

I have 2 ideas:

1. In 1907 (I chose '07 because 7 seasons of the show before the whitewalkers come. It can be modified for balance), the white walkers come. Players need to permanently commit a number of scs to defense from the walkers. If fewer than half the centres on the board are committed, everyone loses. VC changes to account for missing centers.
2. Special units called whitewalkers slowly build in the "Beyond the Wall" space. Unlike other units, they can pack more than 1 unit onto the same tile: Endless in Beyond the Wall, say a max of 3 or 4 elsewhere. One walker is added each season, including builds, but not retreats, until at some point they all spill out, swarming the map. Win a solo before then, or unite against the up to 3 strength walkers.

Or something to do with another player. Those are my quirky ideas though!


I like both of those! I actually tried the mechanic you describe in one of my first forum games (many moons ago) where players could/had to contribute SCs to the common defense. Do you think it would be best to use 1/2 of the SCs as the standard they have to contribute or have it be a hidden number, so players aren't sure if they've contributed enough (and perhaps they get hints about how close they are as the deadline approaches?).

For the second idea, I'd enjoy the spillover effect! I think that would be harder to balance, but watching them swarm across the map would be pretty satisfying... Hmm, what about if there were Valyrian Steel swords that could be carried about by armies, which allow those armies a bonus to fighting White Walkers? You can take defeated players swords and/or dislodge units that hold them to capture them? That way players could respond to the rule-breaking of the White Walkers with some rule breaking of their own, that also won't affect the game balance in the pre-White Walker phase of the game? It still would leave open the balance issue with the Starks getting screwed. But, hey - that's not necessarily the end of the world (unless it is! :P )
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Re: Diplomacy of Ice & Fire III: Looking for Players

Postby condude1 » 11 Dec 2018, 00:29

Aeschines wrote:
condude1 wrote:
Aeschines wrote:Bahaha! I love the idea of getting the White Walkers involved! Would they operate as just another player? The Empire player's modified win condition seems to often throw a wrench into the lategame of Greek City States. So while a solo-only condition seems appropriate, in actual practice it could be not-ideal. What about NPC White Walkers? That could keep the game interesting without breaking it (plus it doesn't seem like negotiating with White Walkers should be possible!). A third option might be to have the White Walkers be run by a human but one who isn't allowed to diplomacize with the players. I did that for the monster in Great Expeditions Diplomacy and it seemed to work pretty well (though that was a bigger map with more room to move around in).

What do you think, Condude1 & StarkAdder?

Another (unrelated) change that I was thinking of introducing to DoI&F is that the game can only end in a solo or a two way draw where the two houses have a marriage, control King's Landing & the Red Keep and collectively own a certain number of SCs (kind of like the dual win in 1812 Overture).

I have 2 ideas:

1. In 1907 (I chose '07 because 7 seasons of the show before the whitewalkers come. It can be modified for balance), the white walkers come. Players need to permanently commit a number of scs to defense from the walkers. If fewer than half the centres on the board are committed, everyone loses. VC changes to account for missing centers.
2. Special units called whitewalkers slowly build in the "Beyond the Wall" space. Unlike other units, they can pack more than 1 unit onto the same tile: Endless in Beyond the Wall, say a max of 3 or 4 elsewhere. One walker is added each season, including builds, but not retreats, until at some point they all spill out, swarming the map. Win a solo before then, or unite against the up to 3 strength walkers.

Or something to do with another player. Those are my quirky ideas though!


I like both of those! I actually tried the mechanic you describe in one of my first forum games (many moons ago) where players could/had to contribute SCs to the common defense. Do you think it would be best to use 1/2 of the SCs as the standard they have to contribute or have it be a hidden number, so players aren't sure if they've contributed enough (and perhaps they get hints about how close they are as the deadline approaches?).

For the second idea, I'd enjoy the spillover effect! I think that would be harder to balance, but watching them swarm across the map would be pretty satisfying... Hmm, what about if there were Valyrian Steel swords that could be carried about by armies, which allow those armies a bonus to fighting White Walkers? You can take defeated players swords and/or dislodge units that hold them to capture them? That way players could respond to the rule-breaking of the White Walkers with some rule breaking of their own, that also won't affect the game balance in the pre-White Walker phase of the game? It still would leave open the balance issue with the Starks getting screwed. But, hey - that's not necessarily the end of the world (unless it is! :P )


For idea #2, the Starks are already pretty powerful, throw in an extra center, and they're good. I like the idea of the Valyrian Steel swords.

Also, remember that diplomacy's a game of negotiation. If the Starks are going to be holding the line against the walkers late game, people will probably be hesitant to weaken them early.

For idea #1, you're right that a hidden number is probably better. Otherwise it's too easy to say "Everyone donate half your army exactly, if anyone doesn't, we all lose, since there'll be no buffer".
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