2 Player Challenge Tournament Signups

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Re: 2 Player Challenge Tournament Signups

Postby mhsmith0 » 23 Feb 2018, 23:20

If that is the case then a tiebreak game will be played, and the higher ranked standard game player the day the tie is discovered is Austria in this single game.


FWIW I'd say that it's better to use standard game rating at tournament start as the sole data point, so things are clearer and less subject to possible manipulation or accusations thereof.
I'd probably also say that the higher ranked/seeded player should get the choice of France or Austria for any tiebreaker match; it's possible (though I think unlikely) that as the tournament develops, some players might decide they prefer France.
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Re: 2 Player Challenge Tournament Signups

Postby TTBen » 23 Feb 2018, 23:37

mhsmith0 wrote:
If that is the case then a tiebreak game will be played, and the higher ranked standard game player the day the tie is discovered is Austria in this single game.


FWIW I'd say that it's better to use standard game rating at tournament start as the sole data point, so things are clearer and less subject to possible manipulation or accusations thereof.
I'd probably also say that the higher ranked/seeded player should get the choice of France or Austria for any tiebreaker match; it's possible (though I think unlikely) that as the tournament develops, some players might decide they prefer France.


Fair points and I agree pending any other debate about the matter. I plan to get out a PM tomorrow to all members currently signed up reminding them of the start since some signed up close to a month ago , I’ll mention this too so everyone involved has a chance to see it.
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Re: 2 Player Challenge Tournament Signups

Postby mkrzyszt » 25 Feb 2018, 01:13

In if there's still room.
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Re: 2 Player Challenge Tournament Signups

Postby thewysecat » 25 Feb 2018, 22:16

$5 on sinnybee to crush you all

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Re: 2 Player Challenge Tournament Signups

Postby ccloughley » 25 Feb 2018, 23:46

Hey! You're not supposed to make sure bets!

Then again, we are on Playdiplomacy...
A deal is a deal is a deal until a better deal comes along...

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Re: 2 Player Challenge Tournament Signups

Postby TTBen » 26 Feb 2018, 02:20

SIGNUPS ARE OFFICIALLY CLOSED, 48 entries and didnt need me to play.

Give me a bit to sort out organizing everyone into pools.
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Re: 2 Player Challenge Tournament Signups

Postby sinnybee » 26 Feb 2018, 08:22

thewysecat wrote:$5 on sinnybee to crush you all

Wyse

Awwww :roll:
Yay, someone rooting for me :D You're my favorite, Wyse :)
However, I've never even looked at one of these games yet, let alone played one, so I'm a noob for now
Fingers crossed that I'll have this figured out by the end of the tourney haha
Hopefully I get a good seed out of my pool and won't have any really hard match-ups until the end.
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If I would have joined or seen this earlier, I could have offered some suggestions, like my specific ideas to reduce the amount of games played for less tourney dropouts (I think it's unnecessary to have 6 pool games--I might have used pools of 5 players each, playing every other player in your pool once, not twice (for more pool sample size of opponents), for 4 pool games instead of 6, 2 as each country. Also, 5 bracket rounds of 3 games each will take a while). Oh well, for the format used, this has been organized very well, props to TTBen.
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Re: 2 Player Challenge Tournament Signups

Postby mhsmith0 » 26 Feb 2018, 23:47

fwiw, part of the reasoning behind having the pools be full double round robin is that the format isn't really balanced between the two powers; Austria has an overall advantage, and a LARGE overall advantage among players who are new to the format (it's a lot easier to make sub-optimal moves as France than Austria, and a lot easier to punish mistakes when you're Austria)... which means that there's a fair amount of bias that can be introduced due to opponent levels.

For instance, if you're in a pool of 5 people, and you draw France against the top two opponents and Austria aginst the bottom two opponents, and only two players advance, you're basically gonna need to score an upset as France in order to advance, which IMO isn't super fair.

My hope is that people are excited enough about the format to want to play all the way through, but we shall certainly see I guess.
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Re: 2 Player Challenge Tournament Signups

Postby Jensen » 27 Feb 2018, 00:25

Good luck everyone
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Re: 2 Player Challenge Tournament Signups

Postby sinnybee » 28 Feb 2018, 02:17

mhsmith0 wrote:fwiw, part of the reasoning behind having the pools be full double round robin is that the format isn't really balanced between the two powers; Austria has an overall advantage, and a LARGE overall advantage among players who are new to the format (it's a lot easier to make sub-optimal moves as France than Austria, and a lot easier to punish mistakes when you're Austria)... which means that there's a fair amount of bias that can be introduced due to opponent levels.

My idea (I'm not suggesting we change anything in this tournament) also calls for an equal number of F and A games for each player.
IMO a/the top priority is having the best variety of opponents when wanting the best possible prediction of seeding per game played.

mhsmith0 wrote:For instance, if you're in a pool of 5 people, and you draw France against the top two opponents and Austria aginst the bottom two opponents, and only two players advance, you're basically gonna need to score an upset as France in order to advance, which IMO isn't super fair.

That wouldn't happen.
First of all, for the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd highest seeded players of each pool (pretournament seeding also likely determined by rating in the same way), they would play the same country for their highest seeded opponent as they would for their lowest seeded opponent. For example, seed 1 of the pool plays Austria against seed 2 and seed 5 (France against seed 3 and seed 4):

1A 2F
1F 3A
1F 4A
1A 5F
2A 3F
2A 4F
2F 5A
3F 4A
3A 5F
4F 5A

The 4th highest seeded player would have maybe a tiny advantage, playing Austria against their highest and third highest seeded opponents (France against their second highest and fourth highest seeded opponents). The 5th highest (lowest) seeded player would have maybe a tiny disadvantage, playing France against their highest and third highest seeded opponents (Austria against their second highest and fourth highest seeded opponents).

Second of all, this is probably how I would do it if the brackets were to remain as they are, with 32 or over 60% making it in.
So, there would be an average of more than 3 players per pool making it to the brackets and no one would be playing against their two highest seeded opponents as the same country for each of those two pool games.

If I were to use brackets for the rest of the tourney but to advance less than 32, then the amount of players per pool I would probably use would be an odd number higher than 5, with the amount of pool games played by each player being the pool size minus 1.

mhsmith0 wrote:My hope is that people are excited enough about the format to want to play all the way through, but we shall certainly see I guess.

If my memory serves me correctly, the last 2 player tournament on this site had some issues (as did an earlier one with Rick as TD). However, having a mostly open board and starting with 3 SC (a bit of an AoE feel to it) sounds a lot more fun and interesting than starting with about 10 SC. I am very optimistic about this tournament, since the FvA tourneys on WebDip seem to have been / be very successful, and since you and TTBen and others have put so much thought (and work) into this :)
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