TTT 1812 Overture: After Action Reports & Animated Recap

6-player variant in Europe & North America. Second round of the 2018 Tournament Through Time. Created & GM'ed by NoPunIn10Did.

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TTT 1812 Overture: After Action Reports & Animated Recap

Postby NoPunIn10Did » 11 May 2018, 19:48

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1812 Overture: After Action Reports
The 2018 Tournament Through Time: Round Two

Hello again! Last night, the second round of the 2018 Tournament Through Time ended in a solo win for pjkon after five years of play. This is the thread where players, teammates, and observers can post their After Action Reports (AARs), where you can share your experiences of the game.

These AARs can be especially helpful to GMs, as each Play-by-Forum game is archived.

As this game was part of an ongoing tournament, you might not want to share too much information about your private conversations.

However, if you have any stories to share from the game, or any feedback to provide (to either the design of the variant or to the handling of the game), this is as good a place as any to post it.

I look forward to hearing from you!

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1811-1815: Animated Recap
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Re: TTT 1812 Overture: After Action Reports & Animated Recap

Postby NoPunIn10Did » 11 May 2018, 19:56

Short Notes from the GM

I may chime in further later, but I wanted to start with a few of the records that this game of 1812 Overture broke.

  1. This was the shortest game of 1812OV to end in a solo.
  2. This was the second-shortest game of 1812OV overall; the face-to-face session ended in a draw after four years.
  3. This is the first time that either Russia or New Spain was part of a solo.
  4. This is the first time that the 12 SCs required for a solo were earned in Europe, rather than in North America.
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Re: TTT 1812 Overture: After Action Reports & Animated Recap

Postby VGhost » 11 May 2018, 22:23

Let's start out with the gratitude: Thanks to NoPun for running the whole event, and to the other players in what was certainly a remarkable game. Congrats to pjkon on the win!

Pre-Game - Opening - Europe
I came into this game having already discussed bids and possible strategies with both Eccentrics (sjg/nanook) and Konlugger (pjkon). Pjkon had actually been contemplating an Austria/Spain bid, but I thought it would be easier to cooperate with Russia than having to "close the jaws" on Russia before we could do anything. Also I started out a bit worried about the two single-continent powers: Austria going East first seemed like it would give France room, and if Austria didn't pressure Russia, then Russia would probably attack me. After some discussion, Russia/Spain was the choice made for pjkon.

I planned to play for a 3-way draw: I wanted to pick up most of NA, and ideally wanted to push through Cherokee with US help, then push US off the coast with Spanish and/or Canadian help. From the very beginning I planned to keep Denmark-Norway a minor power throughout except as Britain and Russia might need a little balance-of-power adjustment. Both seemed more focused on Europe, though it only really worked out for Russia.

My biggest misplays of the game came in the opening, from mis-reading the map. I went all-in for the first couple years on helping Britain crack France, not realizing the French internal lines were so strong. I kept misreading both Ams and Fra as being split into two territories - in other words, Ams wasn't the plausible first target I thought it was, but my perpetuated attack tied down French units that really should have been heading East. Other than throwing Stk at the end of the game, this was probably my biggest contribution to the Russian solo.

Britain never really corrected the error - whether because I never explained my thinking, so he didn't realize what was going on, or because he thought me tying myself down for no purpose was just fine, I'm not sure. France also basically didn't communicate throughout the game.

After two years, I finally realized what was going on. After in Fall 1812, when I should have actually taken Ams, pjkon swore he knew the French orders, and didn't support me in, the next year I just backed off to take Stk... in 1813. I tried to establish communication with France at this point, and he was briefly a little more active. I was fine with Russia doing well in Europe, but wanted to make sure there would be a line set up eventually. There... wasn't.

Early Game - North America
Everybody but the US said they'd be happier with the US gone. Left on my own, I'd have liked to push with the US against Cherokee first, and spent my diplomatic efforts balancing Canadian and US concerns around New England... but I didn't feel like trying to impose that vision, and anyway I didn't get a great vibe from Amby, so I was happy enough to see the brown pieces squished, especially since I didn't have to do much.

One thing - I really don't like the way Toronto related to my lines. Rup probably ought to be Canadian in most games, but since I ended up not playing South I knew I wasn't getting other builds initially, and badgered Canada into giving it to me. This of course leaves Tor vulnerable (as I ended up proving), so I definitely see why he didn't like it, but Canada getting Tor and Rub seems inequitable the other way.

The first major rift I had with Spain was over the split of Cherokee centers. Amby's US had stabilized, making Cherokee a more attractive target. From my perspective - especially as taking Rup pulled my center of gravity West - Oza was absolutely key to securing my position, but pjkon really, really didn't want to give it to me. Since we started discussing the North American center split around the same time as he had cost me Ams and a build in Europe by guessing wrong (lying?) about French orders, I was suddenly not really inclined to trust him at all.

Mid-Game
So in 1813 I turned anti-Spain, and consciously made a decision to prioritize an alliance with the US instead. We discussed plans in pretty significant detail, and had hoped to get Cherokee - now under attack by Spain - on our side as storm troops. USA (now bigjoe) demanded an attack on Canada as well. I didn't like this, but it was clearly a price of cooperation, and getting a build out of Tor was looking really, really valuable. (For what it's worth, asudevil didn't like the idea.) I hoped to be able to keep the damage to just that center, and either negotiate a return with Canada or offer Danish centers in exchange the following year, while pushing US hard to swing fully South.

In 1814 it all came apart.

In 1813 builds, US had let me know he was going to build another army instead of two fleets, because of the Canadian unit in All. This seemed reasonable. I don't know if he was planning the stab yet.

In Spring 1814, Cherokee went radio silent. He was supposed to be forcing Msp for us, with my unit filling into Oza behind, but we were still working on details. As a result, I supported my move to Oza to make sure Spain wouldn't take it. Unfortunately, Cherokee didn't move, and USA turned on me, now with Spanish help, going through Cherokee's Cng first, so that Cherokee lost both his units in North America. USA claimed - after the turn - that he didn't like the center split I'd proposed. This annoyed me, because not only had he not brought it up in discussion - I tend to prioritize tactical moves, unless somebody's making a fuss about a center, like I had tried to do over Oza with Spain - I was still operating on the assumption that Amby's earlier statement that he was prepared to prioritize my growth over USA's was still in effect. If there was an issue, bigjoe should have mentioned it - I'd have been fine with USA getting Cng, less so Mon with him taking Maine too, but even that might have been workable. If he'd merely negotiated Spanish help to let him take Cng, it would have been one thing, but he supported Spain in instead, which was ridiculous.

In Fall 1814, I tried to get things worked out with Britain and USA, because it was clear that France was not talking and Austria was playing Russian puppet in Europe (hard to blame him, as the option was elimination with France not talking). The initial negotiation looked good, but both USA and Britain then went dead. I had to assume an attack, and defended that instead of moving more fully against Spain and Russia. In fact I bounced back onto the Russian front, but in North America I wanted an outlet in case USA pressed the attack, so I dropped a line to Spain to let him know Oza was under-defended but to please let me keep it because USA had stabbed and could we get things back on track?

I was hoping this indication I was re-interested in his good will would pay off. I don't know whether he got that in time to change orders - anyway, he took Oza. Which would have been fine. If it wouldn't have been fine, I wouldn't have told him.

The most baffling thing this entire game might have been this turn from Canada/Britain. I can't figure it out at all, especially supporting Spain into Barcelona.

1815
After getting hit by both Canada/Britain and USA in Fall 1814, I laid down an ultimatum: leave me alone and push against Spain and Russia, or I'd just throw the game. It was evident that a USA push against Canada would be successful, and that I couldn't hold my centers in North America if USA had a full wrap around my position... especially if Spain was still hostile. Britain made similar threats to USA, though it really wasn't clear to me what he was going to do about it.

Irrelevant to that threat, except for humor purposes, was the fact that I was busily working out with Spain - Canada also knew about this - the best way to put pressure on USA. The Spanish center count didn't matter to the solo question, actually, and I thought with a little luck I thought Britain and I could get some kind of a line set up in Europe as long as our Canadian and Shawnee centers didn't just evaporate under US pressure.

In the end, all the bargaining was pointless. USA pressed his attack, and Spain continued to help him. So I threw Stk to Russia, and after a whole lot of yammering on my part pjkon ordered support that let me retake Ken and keep a slightly higher center-count. (Incidentally, I was expecting to lose Rup to Canada, since he knew the game was going to be over, and I wouldn't have blamed him at all. I don't know whether he thought about trying, or assumed I'd block with Mwk.)

Wrap-Up
And that ended the game. One further comment: I'm pretty sure this is the first game I've thrown in my life. It's a pretty terrible feeling, and I've got no plans to do it again. This being a team tournament only makes it worse. That said, I'm really, really not sure what better option I had when USA basically refused to negotiate after his stab despite an imminent solo threat. Which baffles me. As I said at the time, finishing 3rd or 4th in a draw would have scored a lot better than 2nd to a solo. Sure, it screwed everybody else's scores up too, so I guess maybe it worked out for him - I haven't run the numbers.

I do really love the variant - I'm waiting for a chance to play another game. And I think sjg/nanook should get special recognition for tag-teaming this game pretty effectively (though I do want to hear what happened in Fall 1814).
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Re: TTT 1812 Overture: After Action Reports & Animated Recap

Postby Nanook » 12 May 2018, 03:25

I’ll repeat briefly what I’ve said in Slack. In Spring 1814, I had to step in for sjg, and try to negotiate something with USA. We reached an agreement, after A LOT of haggling, for a way to try to work together against Shawnee/Den while holding RuSpain back from a solo. As part of this, big joe made a promise/threat that if I screwed him this turn, he’d devote the rest of this game and the tournament to fighting the Eccentrics no matter what. I returned in kind with a similar promise.

He promptly took Maine, breaking our agreement, while I followed through.

In the Fall, I wanted to make a grab for as many centers as possible and make it clear as possible that if shot didn’t come together and fast, RuSpain would solo. If it worked, great—we’d given ourselves a chance to hold the line against Russia, especially if France started talking. If it didn’t, well, then the idea was that it would force everyone to get on the same page and actually do something. There was a bit of a scramble at the end of the turn between myself and sjg to get the right orders in, which I take full responsibility for.

An ALA almost happened—we came together during the spring and made a plan, where I made it clear that if USA touched either of the remaining NA Canadian centers, we’d stop doing anything remotely helpful. He promptly took both Canadian centers. So we sped up the Russian solo, which might not have been able to be stopped anyways, but didn’t have to happen quite as fast as it did.

I’m not actually sure why we didn’t take Rup. I can’t speak for sjg, I was pretty much checked out at the end and just focused what little time I spent on the game on convincing pj we were pissed at USA enough to throw.


I hate throwing games. I also don’t make that threat in idle. If you call my bluff on it, that’s your right, but I’ll do my best to follow through on it.
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Re: TTT 1812 Overture: After Action Reports & Animated Recap

Postby NoPunIn10Did » 14 May 2018, 19:33

AAR Chat
From the public #_1812_overture Slack channel

All times and dates are in New York Time (EDT).

Notable: the primary contributors to this back-and-forth were either not players at all (Waka & asudevil) or substitutes (nanook & bigj0e03).

A Stupid Game: May 10th 23:23 to 23:56
Nanook (Effusive Eccentric) [23:23]
This was a stupid game. That absolutely did not have to happen, if certain parties didn’t want it to.

Also—I don’t generally make idle threats. Next time I tell somebody that if they screw me over, I’ll do my best to screw them right back, remember this game. You should’ve let Maine be, mon ami.

bigj0e03 Baratheon [23:51]
lol
what a tool
congrats pjkon, well played

pjkon Konlugger [23:56]
You didn't deserve what I did to you BigJoe. I can't say I'm sorry because it was my job to play to win, but I wish I had been able to do it without repaying your loyalty as I did.
Same to you Nanook and Sjg. You were a loyal ally and deserved better than what you got.


Bull f***ing s**t Waka: May 11th, 00:00 to 00:06
WakaKafkaFlame Black Kettle [00:04]
Woof

asudevil Agaa [00:05]
Hope Baratheon enjoyed that extra 200 points he got by refusing to stop Spain and instead just pick off northern SCs instead of holding the southern line. Well played.

pjkon Konlugger [00:05]
Hi Asu. Favor repaid in the form of Kentucky.

WakaKafkaFlame Black Kettle [00:05]
I mean... you guys also did dick to stop it.

asudevil Agaa [00:05]
As we give up 3500 to a solo and they cruise to the solo

WakaKafkaFlame Black Kettle [00:05]
This has been a train wrecking for about three weeks now.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

asudevil Agaa [00:05]
Bull fucking shit Waka. We tried to get France on board ... fucking crickets. We tried to get USA on board...but all he wanted to do was get Maine and eliminate Canada

bigj0e03 Baratheon [00:05]
was the southern line what broke?

WakaKafkaFlame Black Kettle [00:06]
:slightly_smiling_face:
I miss you ASU.

bigj0e03 Baratheon [00:06]
seems like the 13 centers in europe were what caused it

WakaKafkaFlame Black Kettle [00:06]
Yeah. Europe was a mess.
Denmark seemed completely disinterested in Russia.
And France was AFK.

bigj0e03 Baratheon [00:06]
denmark and GB couldnt get their heads out of their asses seems to me
i guess that was the usa's fault

asudevil Agaa [00:06]
Yeah...and that's France's fault...but we could put more pressure on Russia if we didn't have Canada dealing with you


pjkon's perspective: May 11th, 00:07 to 00:10
pjkon Konlugger [00:07]
If anyone wants my perspective, my solo was caused primarily by French Non-Communicativness.

bigj0e03 Baratheon [00:07]
nobody wants your perspective i dont think

WakaKafkaFlame Black Kettle [00:07]
I do.
I want all of the perspective.
That's a lie.

bigj0e03 Baratheon [00:07]
basically i gambled that Nanook and Ghost were solid rational players

WakaKafkaFlame Black Kettle [00:07]
Seriously though. Very stinky play from everyone not named Pjkon.

bigj0e03 Baratheon [00:07]
and wouldnt throw a game over 2 centers

WakaKafkaFlame Black Kettle [00:07]
BigjOe did okay.
Tough spot.

bigj0e03 Baratheon [00:08]
i took over a game where i didnt get a build for the first two years

WakaKafkaFlame Black Kettle [00:08]
I get that.

bigj0e03 Baratheon [00:08]
did what i had to do to get back in it
my dynasty couldnt risk getting a 5th in this one
so had to gamble for a high score
was a bad situation

asudevil Agaa [00:08]
We also TOLD you we were going to do what we did. And you gambled for a score that is 3000 points behind 1st. Yeah...that's MUCH better than stopping a solo

bigj0e03 Baratheon [00:09]
had to risk it
your dynasty actualy had a chance to win this tournament
you blew it
i was in last place going in
had to take a shot

asudevil Agaa [00:09]
Had we prevented the solo by pushing back Spain (cause then he wouldn't get to 18) we could have all scored beter

bigj0e03 Baratheon [00:09]
yes but its relative
i would have been too far behind

asudevil Agaa [00:09]
Great...so congrats on not being last and basically HANDING the tournament to pjkon

bigj0e03 Baratheon [00:09]
you could have stopped that
but you and nanook were more interested in "making me pay for taking 2 centers"

asudevil Agaa [00:10]
No, you wouldn't have. You could have EASILY stayed 2nd or 3rd and had a higher score (because of the multiplier for being in the draw) and still being a high SC count


huh?: May 11th, 00:10 to 00:14
bigj0e03 Baratheon [00:10]
huh?
how could i have stayed 2nd or 3rd exactly?
you guys wouldnt let me expand
i would have gotten 4th if i was lucky
been eaten by canada and you if i wasnt

asudevil Agaa [00:10]
Because we weren't taking SCs from you. We just had to keep Russia from the solo

bigj0e03 Baratheon [00:11]
4th was the best i could do if i didnt take anything

asudevil Agaa [00:11]
You would have picked up SCs from Spain

bigj0e03 Baratheon [00:11]
which ones?
maybe 1-2
i had to leave 4 units up north to watch canada
hes stabby
i think we all know that
and in fact he did take a stab at denmark in autumn 1814
he would have stabbed me also
his canadian armies literally

Nanook (Effusive Eccentric) [00:11]
I mean...I told you straight up that I wouldn’t work with you if you took Maine from me, so...I dunno why that would surprise you :man-shrugging:

bigj0e03 Baratheon [00:11]
could do nothing
but attack me

asudevil Agaa [00:11]
And that was your problem...he wouldn't have stabbed you when we were trying to stop a solo. But you are THAT guy ... who doesn't get that...which is why you can't run an ALA successfully

bigj0e03 Baratheon [00:12]
i gambled that you would choose to stop the solo despite me getting an extra 2-3 centers from canada

asudevil Agaa [00:12]
I guarantee nanook and I would have been able to stop it if you would have just played along...even WITH France AWOL...and we would have all ended with basically the same SC count...or even let you stay ahead ... but you never really said that.

bigj0e03 Baratheon [00:12]
didnt pay off
ok stop

asudevil Agaa [00:12]
Well ... you lost. Congrats ... now you know ...

bigj0e03 Baratheon [00:12]
you clearly know the game

asudevil Agaa [00:13]
ALA trumps everything...and it only works if you don't attack each other.

bigj0e03 Baratheon [00:13]
how is taking two centers not bordering Ruspain in any way help him solo?
it doesnt

Nanook (Effusive Eccentric) [00:13]
Preach asu. I was pushing all my Canadian units east

bigj0e03 Baratheon [00:13]
it only does if you then throw the game besides it

asudevil Agaa [00:13]
BECAUSE YOU DIDNT HAVE ANY UNITS IN THE SOUTH TO STOP SPAIN

bigj0e03 Baratheon [00:13]
bro those were federalist units
they werent south

asudevil Agaa [00:13]
Canada was going east to get to STP...

bigj0e03 Baratheon [00:13]
they were nowhwere near spain and couldnt get near spain

Nanook (Effusive Eccentric) [00:14]
You don’t seem to get the concept of “if you take my centers I won’t do dick to stop RuSpain.” It’s a fairly simple concept, honestly.

bigj0e03 Baratheon [00:14]
right
i thought you were bluffing

asudevil Agaa [00:14]
Because you kept pushing them north...while saying "you guys should stop the solo" while taking our SCs

bigj0e03 Baratheon [00:14]
i thought you were rational
but you werent
this is why this game should be played for money

asudevil Agaa [00:14]
Exactly...you thought we were bluffing...we knew we weren't. Again, don't reward shitty play

bigj0e03 Baratheon [00:14]
so people act rationally instead of getting frustrated and throwing games
its all good, we all made choices

asudevil Agaa [00:14]
I would have done the EXACT same thing with 100 bucks on the line. Don't reward shitty play by a shitty player who doesn't understand how to ALA

bigj0e03 Baratheon [00:14]
i think i made the right ones given the information i had


Language, Please!: May 11th, 00:15 to 00:17
asudevil Agaa [00:15]
Great...well hopefully you stay the fuck out of Dissolution

bigj0e03 Baratheon [00:15]
no we are cursing?

asudevil Agaa [00:15]
And I can get a pro like Amby to play with

bigj0e03 Baratheon [00:15]
how old are you guys?

Nanook (Effusive Eccentric) [00:15]
I mean...seems dumb to complain about someone following through on their threat. You called a bluff. I wasn’t bluffing. Now you’re whining about it.

bigj0e03 Baratheon [00:15]
im not whining
i was explaining what i did

Nanook (Effusive Eccentric) [00:15]
Oh no, somebody cursed! We must find the soap to wash their mouth out

bigj0e03 Baratheon [00:16]
nah its just a bitch move
cursing at someone you dont know
and will never see in person
its something 17 kids do

WakaKafkaFlame Black Kettle [00:16]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFTLKWw542g
YouTubebillyjoelVEVO
Billy Joel - We Didn't Start the Fire (Official Video)


Nanook (Effusive Eccentric) [00:16]
And calling us irrational. FMPOV it’s irrational to sabotage an ALA, then act shocked when we don’t help you to the double win.

asudevil Agaa [00:16]
Great. Thanks for your opinion

bigj0e03 Baratheon [00:16]
i promise if we were hanging out you wouldnt talk like that, but its cool we're on the computer so "fuck" this and "shitty play" that

asudevil Agaa [00:17]
Lol...you don't know me...I actually 100% talk like that in real life

Nanook (Effusive Eccentric) [00:17]
Oh no, I curse up a storm in person too :+1:

asudevil Agaa [00:17]
Especially when people do stupid shit


Lauding praises on pjkon: May 11th, 00:17 to 00:19
bigj0e03 Baratheon [00:17]
pjkon played well, deserved to win
neither of you guys played very well in my opinion

asudevil Agaa [00:18]
He did...he's an AMAZING conversationalist

bigj0e03 Baratheon [00:18]
but thats jus tmy opinion

asudevil Agaa [00:18]
My respect for him has gone through the ROOF during the last 2 game

bigj0e03 Baratheon [00:18]
i think i took the right line given my situation

Nanook (Effusive Eccentric) [00:18]
Anyways, I’m done with this. Dunno how you can really complain when you call a bluff and it wasn’t a bluff—that’s just, ya know, a poor read.

asudevil Agaa [00:18]
Well, that's wrong. And we showed you why

bigj0e03 Baratheon [00:18]
i overestimated you thats all
happens

asudevil Agaa [00:19]
you wont do that again

bigj0e03 Baratheon [00:19]
nah i mean im sure i will

asudevil Agaa [00:19]
Next time you will realize we will throw a game if you do dumb stuff...

bigj0e03 Baratheon [00:19]
lol didnt have a history with you before


Which Spain?: May 11th, 00:19 to 00:24
WakaKafkaFlame Black Kettle [00:19]
For the record, had I not gone for the solo (which you had to push back on) in A&E, we would have driven you to near zero.
But... I got greedy.
When I stabbed, we were marching on Moscow.

asudevil Agaa [00:20]
Only proving we CAN play an ALA...cause in A&E we did it...but you couldn't have people sniping (like us as Russia couldn't pick off Prussia)
Anyway...congrats on winning the tournament pjkon.

bigj0e03 Baratheon [00:22]
ok so in autumn 1814

WakaKafkaFlame Black Kettle [00:22]
Oh
That Spain
New Spain

bigj0e03 Baratheon [00:22]
nanook stabbed denmark

WakaKafkaFlame Black Kettle [00:22]
hehe

bigj0e03 Baratheon [00:22]
without knowing if i would attack canada or not
this is the main reason why what the two of you are saying makes no sense

asudevil Agaa [00:22]
And we put that aside to try and stop Russia in the north

bigj0e03 Baratheon [00:22]
had i gone along with it, you still would have failed at stopping the solo
it was too late at that point
you couldnt have stopped him
look at the map in autumn 1814
without French coordination

asudevil Agaa [00:23]
We could have if you pushed back against Spain instead of continuing to pull units away from him
Agreed...the #1 issue is France going missing. I won't argue that...but when you go against the ALA...then their really is no chance

bigj0e03 Baratheon [00:24]
ok so Canada stabs Denmark
then literally the next turn
he says ok sorry im on baord now
and then at that point its real?
asu he stabbed at same point i did, but i didnt stab in any way that helped Ruspain
nanook actualy supported him into a center that turn (brc)
and attacked denmark which was the front line against russia
i took...Halifax
so your outrage at me seems misplaced to be honest
i would have worked with Ghost to take Spain centers in NA
look at our converstaions, i was hitting him up nonstop trying to coordinate it
he wouldnt commit to anything
Ghost was playing not you, so maybe you are misunderstanding how this went down
not that i give a fuck what you think, but still i find it strange that you are so outraged at me when clearly Nanook blew this game in autumn of 1814, what i did after that was pretty irrelevant

The next morning, GhostEcho chimes in: May 11th, 01:38 to 11:43
Nanook (Effusive Eccentric) [01:38]
I stabbed Denmark in fall 1814 after you broke our agreement and took Maine in the Spring. That, to me, said very clearly that you had no intention of going with an ALA. I also recall making you a promise about what would happen if you broke our agreement. You called my bluff, which is fine and your right to do so—but I wasn’t bluffing.

bigj0e03 Baratheon [09:01]
You had promised us Maine the very first turn
You cost everyone the tournament. ASU should be bitching at you not me

Nanook (Effusive Eccentric) [09:06]
Naw—you did that by calling my bluff when I wasn’t bluffing.

asudevil Agaa [09:06]
So because he didn’t deliver intern wine you decided that intern five the right move was to continue to attack us instead of trying to do an ALA Yeah I’m not blaming the nook for that

GhostEcho[AGAA] [09:10]
A lot of stuff went wrong this game. Some of it, especially the early game, was my fault, which I'll get to in the AAR. In the endgame Britain's 1814 Fall didn't help, but on my view USA put the final nail in the coffin.
I always hated group projects. :wink:
Oh, and gratz to Konlugger for the solo, even if the board sort of handed it him.

bigj0e03 Baratheon [09:21]
If Nanook doesn’t support Ruspain into Brc in autumn 1814, Spain can’t build fleet Havana. If he can’t build fleet Havana i can walk my fleet in there, then into gulf coast. He wouldn’t have solod
Nanook did that before i stabbed anybody
That’s what allowed pjkon to solo. This will be the last i say about it

Nanook (Effusive Eccentric) [09:25]
And I wouldn’t have done that if you left Maine alone in the spring, which, as you may recall, was an agreement we reached and you broke.

bigj0e03 Baratheon [09:26]
your dynasty promised us spain the first turn of the game, it was rightfully ours. It was literally the first agreement we made

Nanook (Effusive Eccentric) [09:28]
That’s great, but also...I don’t really care.
I promised you jack, and that kind of petty grudge holding is why the ALA sunk

WakaKafkaFlame Black Kettle [09:36]
lol
Posted using /giphy | GIF by The Joy Experiment

asudevil Agaa [09:47]
And that petty grudge holding...is why Pjkon just won the tournament...good job guys

Nanook (Effusive Eccentric) [09:54]
I will also say—if pjkon had been any less of a player, the petty bickering would’ve been irrelevant. You definitely earned that win.

bigj0e03 Baratheon [10:03]
“Good job guys” like your play had nothing to do with it. Man you two are annoying

Nanook (Effusive Eccentric) [10:05]
Lol. Of course my play had something to do with it. Never said otherwise. It’s silly to pretend yours didn’t too, but if that’s the fantasy land you want to live in, go for it

bigj0e03 Baratheon [10:06]
Was quoting asu from his last message not you

Nanook (Effusive Eccentric) [10:10]
Ah, gotcha

asudevil Agaa [10:13]
Yes...YOUR grudge about Maine...is 100% what cost this...because then nanook threw it...and we had to go along with it cause our score was only going to get worse. That's 100% on you. Sure, we could have pushed against Russia earlier...but with Austria running Jannisary and France AWOL...that was a hard push (edited)

bigj0e03 Baratheon [11:37]
so you're saying that me taking one center, which had already been promised to us, is ample reason for Nanook to throw the game and therefor the entire 5 match tournament to konlugger? Are you two like best friends or something, because that reasoning is so absurd it must be based on previous relationship.
the game was lost because Nanook stabbed Denmark and supported Ruspain into Brc in Autumn of 1814. His reasons why he did it make very little difference.
and the fact that you wont admit that and instead keep piling on me is obnoxious
maybe you're just trolling, i hope its that

asudevil Agaa [11:40]
Your refusal to move against Spain and show you wanted to work in an ALA is what lost this. But that's fine. You have your thoughts...I have mine...we won't agree...but I know that you are a person who if you get stabbed early...will irrationally continue for that ONE SC instead of putting past actions behind you and stopping a solo. I will use that next time I play you to my benefit.

Nanook (Effusive Eccentric) [11:43]
Dude. I told you what I’d do if you took Maine in Spring 14. You decided to do it anyways. As is your right. I followed through on my threat/promise. As is my right. It shouldn’t shock you this much when someone follows through on a threat.

A few messages from the GM: May 11th, 11:46 to 14:19
NoPunIn10Did GM [11:46]
I'm really tempted to copy/paste this whole conversation to the AAR thread.

Wobbly Despicable [11:47]
**@NoPunIn10Did GM coughs loudly and stomps on the floor under the table**

Nanook (Effusive Eccentric) [11:48]
I’m fine with that

WakaKafkaFlame Black Kettle [12:30]
What you guys sound like...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z734xov1Hzo
YouTubethevanescencechannel
All In The Family's Hilarious Late Night Brawl


NoPunIn10Did GM [13:51]
@channel
*TTT 1812 Overture: After Action Reports & Animated Recap*
viewtopic.php?f=826&t=57845#p949592

NoPunIn10Did GM [13:52]
uploaded this image: _1811-1815.animated.gif

bigj0e03 Baratheon [13:59]
I think i made the game theory optimal play given the situation and the information at the time. What Nanook did was reactionary. What he fails to realize is that he hurt basically everyone else in the tournament more than me, Baratheon were huge long shots going into round 2, and even bigger long shots after getting no builds for the first few years. Agaa could have worked with me, but after i supported them into Toronto they never reciprocated in any way.

Nanook (Effusive Eccentric) [14:00]
I mean...I told you beforehand what I’d do...so I’m not sure how that’s reactionary

bigj0e03 Baratheon [14:07]
You reacted to what i did, despite it being an overall negative for you and everyone else in the tournament. Definitely you’re choice, but in no way an objectively “good move” if the goal of the tournament is to win or to finish as high in the rankings as you can. Cutting off your nose to spite your face type of thing.

Nanook (Effusive Eccentric) [14:15]
*shrugs* I...don’t really care? I mean, I told you what would happen if you took Maine...you took it anyways...I followed through. Not really gonna apologize for that.

NoPunIn10Did GM [14:16]
I don't want to give *too* much strategic feedback, since the tournament is still going, but I think one of the most important factors (outside of the finger-pointing, which you should feel free to continue) was @Gnaah Tank's semi-disappearance. He never missed an orders or adjustment phase, but I'm still waiting to hear back from him in regard to what happened communication-wise.

While many games of _1812OV_ have seen France weakened early on, I wonder if things might have turned out quite differently in Europe had there been a more engaged player in Napoleon's shoes. If someone from his team had stepped in, as @Nanook (Effusive Eccentric) did for @sjg11 Eccentric, and as @bigj0e03 Baratheon did for @Amby Baratheon, I doubt this game would have resolved as quickly as it did.

Nanook (Effusive Eccentric) [14:17]
I definitely agree with that. If France had been talking to us, it would’ve changed a lot
Or talking to DenShaw

NoPunIn10Did GM [14:18]
I really hope @Gnaah Tank is okay.

Nanook (Effusive Eccentric) [14:18]
Me too
He’s a good dude

NoPunIn10Did GM [14:18]
But poor Tank dynasty. They have a tough hill to climb now, receiving the minimum possible score for two rounds in a row.

bigj0e03 Baratheon [14:19]
Yea France just disappearing was a wild card that fell right into Pjkon’s lap
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