Emergence: AAR's

An 11 player variant set in apocalyptic future North America. Designed and GMed by joe92. Three way draw shared by Aeschines, Groo, and Nanooktheskimo

Moderator: Morg

Re: Emergence: AAR's

Postby EnlightenedMonarch » 03 May 2018, 04:41

Groo wrote:
StarkAdder wrote:Thanks to Joe92 for a great job moderating a great game. The map was brilliant and the post-game animated GIF and graphs even brillianter.

As for play balance, hard to tell after only one game. I feel that Great Lakes, which I played, has an inherent disadvantage (hard to get many neutral SCs on the first year) and that Northeast (3 SCs and only one real opponent at the start...Great Lakes) may have a bit of an advantage, but some of that experience was probably due to my poor play. I had a major computer failure early in the game which resulting in one NMR and a lack of diplomacy from me at a crucial phase of the game, and I botched the few relationships I did have by not sticking with one all the way.

Still, I would love to try this game again from another perspective, and ideally with many of the same players. One of the best I have experienced!

StarkAdder

I'm basicaly marking this thread now coz Im on a phone, just wanted to say I disagree with GL being in a very disadvantageous position. You just had to work with Pie against NE from the very start. The map basically dictates it for you but instaed you moved towars StL and that Chi build really made me go after you.


I do think that GL is in a very disadvantaged position. It can only get 1 build in the first year, while Northeast is guaranteed 2 very likely to get 3. Also, any time the map dictates who you have to go after at start, that's definitely a disadvantaged position.
"Nothing reduces unemployment like a good war."
Gold Classicist
Imperial Leader of Japan in Colonial 7
Past Campaigns: Norway (CDRBH), Ranier (Emerald City 3), Italy (ModEx 1), Ethiopia (Africa 4)
User avatar
EnlightenedMonarch
 
Posts: 389
Joined: 31 Dec 2015, 00:05
Class: Ambassador
Standard rating: (1393)
All-game rating: (1419)
Timezone: GMT-5

Re: Emergence: AAR's

Postby nanooktheeskimo » 03 May 2018, 04:45

EnlightenedMonarch wrote:
Groo wrote:
StarkAdder wrote:Thanks to Joe92 for a great job moderating a great game. The map was brilliant and the post-game animated GIF and graphs even brillianter.

As for play balance, hard to tell after only one game. I feel that Great Lakes, which I played, has an inherent disadvantage (hard to get many neutral SCs on the first year) and that Northeast (3 SCs and only one real opponent at the start...Great Lakes) may have a bit of an advantage, but some of that experience was probably due to my poor play. I had a major computer failure early in the game which resulting in one NMR and a lack of diplomacy from me at a crucial phase of the game, and I botched the few relationships I did have by not sticking with one all the way.

Still, I would love to try this game again from another perspective, and ideally with many of the same players. One of the best I have experienced!

StarkAdder

I'm basicaly marking this thread now coz Im on a phone, just wanted to say I disagree with GL being in a very disadvantageous position. You just had to work with Pie against NE from the very start. The map basically dictates it for you but instaed you moved towars StL and that Chi build really made me go after you.


I do think that GL is in a very disadvantaged position. It can only get 1 build in the first year, while Northeast is guaranteed 2 very likely to get 3. Also, any time the map dictates who you have to go after at start, that's definitely a disadvantaged position.

I actually strongly disagree that the map dictates GL has to go after NE. I really think that an NE/GL alliance can work, but it requires a GL that commits to it, instead of waffling and dancing back and forth. I can understand Stark's hesitance to throw all in, but really, the thing that broke us and made me want to attack him rather than work with him was his reluctance to attack Piedmont. If he'd gone after Piedmont aggressively with me, I think that the game might've turned out differently, cause we probably could've made it work.
Platinum Classicist
(h/t lordelindel)

I am your (co-) Leader.

GM of WitA 7, WitA 8.

Come play face to face!

Need a forum game GM'ed? PM me!

Mod (but I'm normally not talking as one)
User avatar
nanooktheeskimo
Premium Member
 
Posts: 9590
Joined: 19 Jun 2014, 19:52
Location: East TN
Class: Star Ambassador
Standard rating: 1209
All-game rating: 1389
Timezone: GMT-5

Re: Emergence: AAR's

Postby EnlightenedMonarch » 03 May 2018, 04:47

Aeschines wrote:This was particularly unfortunate because SoCal, EnlightenedMonarch, was an excellent communicator and seemed like excellent ally material.

Thanks Aeschines!

Aeschines wrote:After SoCal

Hehehe what do you mean after SoCal? I was there the whole time! ;)
"Nothing reduces unemployment like a good war."
Gold Classicist
Imperial Leader of Japan in Colonial 7
Past Campaigns: Norway (CDRBH), Ranier (Emerald City 3), Italy (ModEx 1), Ethiopia (Africa 4)
User avatar
EnlightenedMonarch
 
Posts: 389
Joined: 31 Dec 2015, 00:05
Class: Ambassador
Standard rating: (1393)
All-game rating: (1419)
Timezone: GMT-5

Re: Emergence: AAR's

Postby EnlightenedMonarch » 03 May 2018, 04:52

nanooktheeskimo wrote:
EnlightenedMonarch wrote:
Groo wrote:I'm basicaly marking this thread now coz Im on a phone, just wanted to say I disagree with GL being in a very disadvantageous position. You just had to work with Pie against NE from the very start. The map basically dictates it for you but instaed you moved towars StL and that Chi build really made me go after you.


I do think that GL is in a very disadvantaged position. It can only get 1 build in the first year, while Northeast is guaranteed 2 very likely to get 3. Also, any time the map dictates who you have to go after at start, that's definitely a disadvantaged position.

I actually strongly disagree that the map dictates GL has to go after NE. I really think that an NE/GL alliance can work, but it requires a GL that commits to it, instead of waffling and dancing back and forth. I can understand Stark's hesitance to throw all in, but really, the thing that broke us and made me want to attack him rather than work with him was his reluctance to attack Piedmont. If he'd gone after Piedmont aggressively with me, I think that the game might've turned out differently, cause we probably could've made it work.


I mean I guess that alliance can work but GL will likely be the junior partner. Plus they can't build fleets without angering NE while NE can send fleets into the lakes. And GL attacking Pied requires a very extended line that doesn't seem like a very defensible position.

Of course, I don't know how any of that would play out. And I'm sure it could work. I just think it's much more likely not to.
"Nothing reduces unemployment like a good war."
Gold Classicist
Imperial Leader of Japan in Colonial 7
Past Campaigns: Norway (CDRBH), Ranier (Emerald City 3), Italy (ModEx 1), Ethiopia (Africa 4)
User avatar
EnlightenedMonarch
 
Posts: 389
Joined: 31 Dec 2015, 00:05
Class: Ambassador
Standard rating: (1393)
All-game rating: (1419)
Timezone: GMT-5

Re: Emergence: AAR's

Postby nanooktheeskimo » 03 May 2018, 05:03

EnlightenedMonarch wrote:
nanooktheeskimo wrote:
EnlightenedMonarch wrote:I do think that GL is in a very disadvantaged position. It can only get 1 build in the first year, while Northeast is guaranteed 2 very likely to get 3. Also, any time the map dictates who you have to go after at start, that's definitely a disadvantaged position.

I actually strongly disagree that the map dictates GL has to go after NE. I really think that an NE/GL alliance can work, but it requires a GL that commits to it, instead of waffling and dancing back and forth. I can understand Stark's hesitance to throw all in, but really, the thing that broke us and made me want to attack him rather than work with him was his reluctance to attack Piedmont. If he'd gone after Piedmont aggressively with me, I think that the game might've turned out differently, cause we probably could've made it work.


I mean I guess that alliance can work but GL will likely be the junior partner. Plus they can't build fleets without angering NE while NE can send fleets into the lakes. And GL attacking Pied requires a very extended line that doesn't seem like a very defensible position.

Of course, I don't know how any of that would play out. And I'm sure it could work. I just think it's much more likely not to.

I think if NE is fleet heavy it works. If NE can penetrate into MAO or wrap a few fleets around the board, GL is a pretty good partner for them. The key is NE being able to push their fleets south or wrap them around, and figuring out something to do with GL's fleet. I wanted to send it out through Mon and wrap it around, but obviously our alliance fell apart before that ever had a chance.
Platinum Classicist
(h/t lordelindel)

I am your (co-) Leader.

GM of WitA 7, WitA 8.

Come play face to face!

Need a forum game GM'ed? PM me!

Mod (but I'm normally not talking as one)
User avatar
nanooktheeskimo
Premium Member
 
Posts: 9590
Joined: 19 Jun 2014, 19:52
Location: East TN
Class: Star Ambassador
Standard rating: 1209
All-game rating: 1389
Timezone: GMT-5

Re: Emergence: AAR's

Postby Groo » 03 May 2018, 12:26

I have mixed feelings about GL being disadvantageous.

OK - you have only 1 guaranteed build - that's not that good - but you have a pretty solid out of the reach position AND you start with more units than most.
What I think IS disadvantageous though is - the fact you get only 1 build makes you impossible to threaten Dakotas if FR decides to go there (I actually could brute force it because I knew he wouldn't risk his only build for a bounce in Dak)
What I think would make the game a bit balanced is giving NE one unit less - and leaving Boston for example as a neutral dot - thus slowing down his tempo a bit.

GL working with Pie against NE is almost dictated by the map. Fir GL to work with NE I think Toronto should remain neutral - and that's a bit counter-intuitive and most players wouldn't go that way. Also, yes, it would probably help if NE doesn't have a 7 units start option (which Nook pulled nicely) :)

Aeschines wrote:
Thank you GROO! You were an awesome ally and I am very happy to share this draw with you and Nanook.


Thank you, mate - it was a pleasure playing with you and Nook - very easy and fun to work with both of you guys.
Also, I agree with your suggestion - the SC count to solo should probably be a bit lower (somewhere around 25?)

EnlightenedMonarch wrote: Front Range decided to not take SLC one fall turn, no idea why he allowed me to stay alive.

One word: tempo. In more than one word: I had other plans for my units at the time + I felt like it's better for me to grow at a steadier pace and I played in such a way to never be threatened by that army of yours. If you were a faithful mercenary you would probably have been on the front lines of attacking Cascadia or N.Cal with me and that would allow me even more rapid growth. AZ warned me about you being unfaithful though, so I just walked in SLC as soon as I found out that you might become a trouble.

Oh, and one more thing - I'm getting back at wing units again, sorry, I just feel this map is made for them. The wing unit build count can be your stronghold count - that would emphasize the importance of strongholds and give a new layer of depth to the variant.
Last edited by Groo on 03 May 2018, 12:32, edited 1 time in total.
"If you have a garden and a library, you have everything you need."

Cornubia in Heptarchy 14 - 3WD
Front Range in Emergence - 3WD
Holland in Colonial 7 - 3WD
House Baratheon in Diplomacy of Ice and Fire - Mad King SOLO
Mexico in WiTA 7 - stabbed to death
Thebes in Greek City States IV
User avatar
Groo
Premium Member
 
Posts: 206
Joined: 14 Nov 2016, 18:13
Class: Star Ambassador
Standard rating: 1621
All-game rating: 1786
Timezone: GMT

Re: Emergence: AAR's

Postby Groo » 03 May 2018, 12:31

To sum up my opinion about the balance of the map - I think there are too few different viable openings for each power and that's bad from the gameplay perspective. But once the opening moves are over I can see this being a very fun and chaotic game - one that I'd very much enjoy to play as a site variant as well.
"If you have a garden and a library, you have everything you need."

Cornubia in Heptarchy 14 - 3WD
Front Range in Emergence - 3WD
Holland in Colonial 7 - 3WD
House Baratheon in Diplomacy of Ice and Fire - Mad King SOLO
Mexico in WiTA 7 - stabbed to death
Thebes in Greek City States IV
User avatar
Groo
Premium Member
 
Posts: 206
Joined: 14 Nov 2016, 18:13
Class: Star Ambassador
Standard rating: 1621
All-game rating: 1786
Timezone: GMT

Re: Emergence: AAR's

Postby Don Juan of Austria » 05 May 2018, 16:02

Ah...well, where to start? The very beginning, a very good place to start. ;)

Bids and allocation:

The West Coast was not really where I wanted to be. Especially California...and even more especially S. California. So I was at least happy to draw North California.
My top three choices were NE, Florida, and GL. But like I said, I got N.Cali, which had the lowest bids of all the powers to choose from.

The Expansion Period:
Well first, Aeschines swept me off my feet with his.... everything. Whatever plans I originally had were tossed in the garbage, and I decided to go with AZ. Now, S.Cali did write to me, and he did make some very good points and proposals...ones which I thought could work and I wanted to try out, but in the end, Aeschines did have me on his side, and I felt like his proposals were better. Definitely at the time anyway.
AZ and I pushed on S.Cali, and really, it was too easy. I did make the mistake of trusting Cascadia, who marched right into Reno in the first year. I very much wonder how things might have changed had I held in Reno.

S. Cali was all but finished now, and Cascadia had already shown his intentions. The Spring of 2163, and then the Fall, was a critical time for me. I could make major positional advances in Cascadia if I put all 6 of my units to use...I was hesitant however, because to do so I would be trusting AZ a whole lot.
I deliberated about it a ton, probably more than I should have in RL, but I decided to risk it. ..and yikes, I was seriously worried. But AZ DID pull through, and I was put into an excellent position in regard to Cascadia. This was the height of Purple on the map...so just, like, pause here for a few moments, and take it in. Breath in, oh yes...

My beating heart, ripped out:
Spring 64 rolled in. :shock: :o :( Mere emoji alone cannot describe my emotions... except maybe this one :cry: AZ had stabbed me. It was painful on the eyes to look at the map, but the realization of it all and the pain suffered was deadened by the natural anesthetic of just wow. I had seriously not expected to be stabbed right then. Yes, maybe the previous year, or yes, maybe in the future, but right then I thought we were the best of buddies and we were going to win as we.
For AZ though, it was the ideal time. For centers, and simply because I would soon be building armies and fleets back near him.

Gentle Decline:
Gentle/not too gentle. It was down hill in a hearse for me, curtains drawn and all. I thought I might be able to cling to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness a little longer with Groo's assistance...but alas, he was in league with AZ more than I even suspected.

In the end, I was happy to be alive. Happy to accept a three way draw with those powers in it.

Thanks Joe for designing and running such a beautiful map and game. It was quite enjoyable! And thanks Aeschines... for making it extra memorable. ;)
"In everything, moderation". ~Aristotle
A proud member of the Whippersnappers,
Bronze Classicists,
Lancer in the PBF cavalry.

Ireland in Heptarchy 16!
Don Juan of Toledo in Diplomacy for Dukes and Popes!
User avatar
Don Juan of Austria
 
Posts: 1211
Joined: 19 Feb 2014, 11:50
Location: South Africa, though given to travel
Class: Star Ambassador
Standard rating: (1047)
All-game rating: (1160)
Timezone: GMT+2

Re: Emergence: AAR's

Postby Don Juan of Austria » 05 May 2018, 16:06

And for the Great lakes... do you suppose it would over power them to have a fleet starting in Detroit and an army in Milwaukee?
"In everything, moderation". ~Aristotle
A proud member of the Whippersnappers,
Bronze Classicists,
Lancer in the PBF cavalry.

Ireland in Heptarchy 16!
Don Juan of Toledo in Diplomacy for Dukes and Popes!
User avatar
Don Juan of Austria
 
Posts: 1211
Joined: 19 Feb 2014, 11:50
Location: South Africa, though given to travel
Class: Star Ambassador
Standard rating: (1047)
All-game rating: (1160)
Timezone: GMT+2

Previous

Return to Emergence {All Maps Visible}

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest