PDL 1, Round 3, Game 1. AAR

After game reports for PlaDip Diplomacy League games

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Re: PDL 1, Round 3, Game 1. AAR

Postby Charleroi » 06 Sep 2018, 20:46

GPD,

I am honestly interested in why you departed from the game. You're right that you didn't cause the downfall of the league. Your resignation was only one of many that made it untenable (and as much as I appreciated and enjoyed the league, I don't know how we could create a sustainable system where people could be relied on to stick around for the whole year).

You left before France returned, I believe, so that didn't trigger your decision. And however you may feel about greggybear at the moment, I would appreciate if you could share with me and the other participants in the game (including our sub Pootle) why you departed.
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Re: PDL 1, Round 3, Game 1. AAR

Postby greggybear » 06 Sep 2018, 20:54

Strategus wrote:There were many surrenders and departures from the league, and you blame its complete failure on me? Ha!

And when you start abusing people, don't expect to get a civil response. All I said was something wsas out of order. You started abusing me personally. So why should I be interested in your "argument". My business is mine, and if I don't want to share it with you its tough tit boyo.


I don't blame its failure completely on you. I said it ended as an immediate reaction to your departure and that you were the straw that broke the camel's back. I still believe those things to be true.

The fact that you still, almost a month later, advertise in your signature that you're an "Actual Platinum Classicist" after surrendering as you did speaks volumes.
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Re: PDL 1, Round 3, Game 1. AAR

Postby Strategus » 06 Sep 2018, 21:14

greggybear wrote:
Strategus wrote:There were many surrenders and departures from the league, and you blame its complete failure on me? Ha!

And when you start abusing people, don't expect to get a civil response. All I said was something wsas out of order. You started abusing me personally. So why should I be interested in your "argument". My business is mine, and if I don't want to share it with you its tough tit boyo.


I don't blame its failure completely on you. I said it ended as an immediate reaction to your departure and that you were the straw that broke the camel's back. I still believe those things to be true.

The fact that you still, almost a month later, advertise in your signature that you're an "Actual Platinum Classicist" after surrendering as you did speaks volumes.

You still don't know what you are talking about. You didn't say that at all. You said
It's a pity that the league ended directly as a result of your tantrum and departure
, so now you are trying to change what you said? Typical. And I'll call myself whatever the hell I like. It's a free world. Mind your own shit. Leave me alone. Stop talking. Until you can think of something interesting to say.
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Re: PDL 1, Round 3, Game 1. AAR

Postby Charleroi » 06 Sep 2018, 21:21

GPD & Greggybear,

We can see that you're both angry. Perhaps we can call time on the stone throwing between the two of you so that we can have a conversation about how the game went?

I would still like to know why, GPD, you resigned from the game. It looks like this was your only surrender in all of your time at Playdip. That's a surprise and leaves me wondering what caused it.
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Re: PDL 1, Round 3, Game 1. AAR

Postby Strategus » 06 Sep 2018, 21:28

Charleroi wrote:GPD & Greggybear,

We can see that you're both angry. Perhaps we can call time on the stone throwing between the two of you so that we can have a conversation about how the game went?

I would still like to know why, GPD, you resigned from the game. It looks like this was your only surrender in all of your time at Playdip. That's a surprise and leaves me wondering what caused it.

I
ran off in a pathetic and childish huff
, obviously, because I have
zero respect for the game itself, for the League, for the Classicists, probably even for the site
. Simples ;)
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Re: PDL 1, Round 3, Game 1. AAR

Postby Charleroi » 06 Sep 2018, 21:46

Seriously GPD. Setting aside whatever names people might have thrown at you. I'd like your version of the game and why you decided to resign.
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Re: PDL 1, Round 3, Game 1. AAR

Postby jay65536 » 06 Sep 2018, 23:42

This was the paragraph of yours that really stuck out to me, talking about 1913 when you owned Marseilles:

Charleroi wrote:As you see, I was able to move on Italy in the fall. That got me Venice, but I still wasn't able to do anything useful with Marseilles (my plan here was to pull Munich into Burgundy or vice versa but I wasn't able to pull it off. Again, I can't get over the feeling that I blew it. Insight from others would be appreciated on this point. And without being able to grab Warsaw, I missed my chance to get the builds that would give me control of the east. I was hoping that I could hold Marseilles and Munich and grab the southeast to take a solo. Without getting a leg up on Russia, that was impossible.


I can't speak to the interpersonal dynamics, being an outsider, but I think I can speak to these two points that I bolded.

1) Warsaw. I believe, based on watching the moves, that Russia was planning on grabbing Warsaw from Germany as early as Spring 1912. Russia's army that began in Finland went to StP, in the same turn as Turkey blew up his southern fleet so that he could build a new northern one. If Russia's sole objective was to fight France, there was no tactical reason for that army not to remain in Finland. It weakened the northern front and, had it not moved again, blocked StP for the fleet build. So I surmised at that point that the StP move was either a bad tactical mistake, or Russia knew Turkey wouldn't vacate Bulgaria (which was clearly not the case), or it was going to Livonia in order to take Warsaw off Germany and try to get him out of the game. The point being, I think the whole idea that Warsaw could be open for you in 1913 was a miscalculation. Did you discuss those 1912 army moves during the game, or did they get by unnoticed?

2) Marseilles. Once you had two units on Burgundy, I think France would have known she'd have to play defense--and because Munich was the only army next to Ruhr, Ruhr was an uncuttable support for Burgundy to hold. That's why I think you should have seriously considered moving Mar-Gas. It looks weird because it seems like it gives up Marseilles, but I don't think I would have been worried about that. The best part of being in Marseilles isn't owning Marseilles--it's getting to sneak a unit behind enemy lines. If you make it to Gascony, you are next to everything; France has to waste a lot of time both taking Marseilles back and guarding--or even recapturing--Brest and Paris from you. It could have--maybe would have--caused one or more of the French fronts to implode. As you played it, because France had a supporter ready to guard against your frontal attack--2v2 in Burgundy--you were never able to seriously challenge her position.
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Re: PDL 1, Round 3, Game 1. AAR

Postby Charleroi » 07 Sep 2018, 02:53

jay65536 wrote:1) Warsaw. I believe, based on watching the moves, that Russia was planning on grabbing Warsaw from Germany as early as Spring 1912. Russia's army that began in Finland went to StP, in the same turn as Turkey blew up his southern fleet so that he could build a new northern one. If Russia's sole objective was to fight France, there was no tactical reason for that army not to remain in Finland. It weakened the northern front and, had it not moved again, blocked StP for the fleet build. So I surmised at that point that the StP move was either a bad tactical mistake, or Russia knew Turkey wouldn't vacate Bulgaria (which was clearly not the case), or it was going to Livonia in order to take Warsaw off Germany and try to get him out of the game. The point being, I think the whole idea that Warsaw could be open for you in 1913 was a miscalculation. Did you discuss those 1912 army moves during the game, or did they get by unnoticed?

2) Marseilles. Once you had two units on Burgundy, I think France would have known she'd have to play defense--and because Munich was the only army next to Ruhr, Ruhr was an uncuttable support for Burgundy to hold. That's why I think you should have seriously considered moving Mar-Gas. It looks weird because it seems like it gives up Marseilles, but I don't think I would have been worried about that. The best part of being in Marseilles isn't owning Marseilles--it's getting to sneak a unit behind enemy lines. If you make it to Gascony, you are next to everything; France has to waste a lot of time both taking Marseilles back and guarding--or even recapturing--Brest and Paris from you. It could have--maybe would have--caused one or more of the French fronts to implode. As you played it, because France had a supporter ready to guard against your frontal attack--2v2 in Burgundy--you were never able to seriously challenge her position.


Yea - I think you're right about both of these. I remember with Marseilles trying to think about how much I could push France without making the rest of the board see me as the solo threat but that led me to make overly hesitant moves. Gascony is certainly just as good as being in Marseilles itself. And as for Warsaw, GPD can confirm when he started wanting to get Warsaw back. I don't think we planned the move from Finland - I recall feeling surprised he would occupy St Pete rather than build there. Oversight on my part.
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Re: PDL 1, Round 3, Game 1. AAR

Postby Don Juan of Austria » 07 Sep 2018, 06:44

Charleroi wrote:Seriously GPD. Setting aside whatever names people might have thrown at you. I'd like your version of the game and why you decided to resign.


+1
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Re: PDL 1, Round 3, Game 1. AAR

Postby Jack007 » 07 Sep 2018, 07:18

Please, folks, let Strategus alone. He for sure had his reasons for his actions. And also for not wanting to speak about it. Neither of them do I know, but am willing to respect whatever it be.

Maybe he doesn't want to offend somebody, maybe he doesn't want to let resurge a painful experience, maybe his reasons are of intimate nature and have not to concern anybody.

You have respected Strategus during years for being a great dipper and man, so please do it now as well. Or would you really think he has changed because of this one event, and now doesn't deserve your respect anymore? No.
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