PDL 1, Round 3, Game 1. AAR

After game reports for PlaDip Diplomacy League games

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Re: PDL 1, Round 3, Game 1. AAR

Postby Strategus » 06 Sep 2018, 19:09

I've got a comment. Telling everyone that you are getting a permanent substitute and then rejoining the game when it turns in your favour is bang out of order.
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Re: PDL 1, Round 3, Game 1. AAR

Postby the_discourses » 06 Sep 2018, 19:13

Hey all, I'm the Russia that joined the game, and not as a PDL member.

I was cruising for an active game to join, saw a mature game without a player, and clicked on 'join'. If it ruffled some feathers, sorry, but it was on the board, and I figured a game with a player is better than one without, especially if the country that was being played was one that still had some influence.

Now, for the accusation of me throwing the game. I have to give kudos to Austria for painting an image of me being someone who doesn't know how center allocation, rules, or diplomacy work. I'm sure that my rating, though not as high as many others', was earned through me not understanding the fine nuances of the game.

Here is how I viewed the picture. I, a new player entering a game, have an Austria attacking me like a maniac while France is growing at his back. I have one more SC than I do armies. I reach out to him to make a deal about stopping France and I'm willing to sacrifice a single SC to help him so I could keep my current units and build an extra unit in the north since I can grab one off Turkey and keep my SC count even. But Austria doesn't want that. Austria wants me to lose 2 SC's to him, destroy a unit that is vital to any chance I have of holding him off so I can then build a unit to go fight France while he is position to drive to Moscow faster than Hitler at the beginning of Barbarossa. And, for some reason, he couldn't understand why I would be unwilling to destroy my own units and give him SC's that were rightfully mine, letting him have a superior position while fighting his enemy at the same time. Crazy, right?

So I tell him to either take my more than generous offer of me giving him an SC and getting an ally and working towards a three-way, or me just throwing the game to France. Austria chose to call my bluff. Except it wasn't a bluff. I immediately started handing France SC's left, right, and center.

The other thing I have to give kudos to Austria for is convincing France that me wanting to give him a solo is somehow a bad, dirty thing that France must never, ever accept. France, you're an idiot for not taking a solo when you could. Austria, you got lucky as hell that France felt sufficiently bad to not take the solo. No other player on that board would have done that, you included. If your position and France's were reversed, you'd have taken Munich while proclaiming that it's a shame that it worked out that way since you and he were working so well together.

That's my total participation in the game.
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Re: PDL 1, Round 3, Game 1. AAR

Postby Strategus » 06 Sep 2018, 19:26

the_discourses wrote:Hey all, I'm the Russia that joined the game, and not as a PDL member.

I was cruising for an active game to join, saw a mature game without a player, and clicked on 'join'. If it ruffled some feathers, sorry, but it was on the board, and I figured a game with a player is better than one without, especially if the country that was being played was one that still had some influence.

Now, for the accusation of me throwing the game. I have to give kudos to Austria for painting an image of me being someone who doesn't know how center allocation, rules, or diplomacy work. I'm sure that my rating, though not as high as many others', was earned through me not understanding the fine nuances of the game.

Here is how I viewed the picture. I, a new player entering a game, have an Austria attacking me like a maniac while France is growing at his back. I have one more SC than I do armies. I reach out to him to make a deal about stopping France and I'm willing to sacrifice a single SC to help him so I could keep my current units and build an extra unit in the north since I can grab one off Turkey and keep my SC count even. But Austria doesn't want that. Austria wants me to lose 2 SC's to him, destroy a unit that is vital to any chance I have of holding him off so I can then build a unit to go fight France while he is position to drive to Moscow faster than Hitler at the beginning of Barbarossa. And, for some reason, he couldn't understand why I would be unwilling to destroy my own units and give him SC's that were rightfully mine, letting him have a superior position while fighting his enemy at the same time. Crazy, right?

So I tell him to either take my more than generous offer of me giving him an SC and getting an ally and working towards a three-way, or me just throwing the game to France. Austria chose to call my bluff. Except it wasn't a bluff. I immediately started handing France SC's left, right, and center.

The other thing I have to give kudos to Austria for is convincing France that me wanting to give him a solo is somehow a bad, dirty thing that France must never, ever accept. France, you're an idiot for not taking a solo when you could. Austria, you got lucky as hell that France felt sufficiently bad to not take the solo. No other player on that board would have done that, you included. If your position and France's were reversed, you'd have taken Munich while proclaiming that it's a shame that it worked out that way since you and he were working so well together.

That's my total participation in the game.


This is how the pdl works. Which is why I quit. I want to play diplomacy not happy families.
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Re: PDL 1, Round 3, Game 1. AAR

Postby greggybear » 06 Sep 2018, 19:44

Strategus wrote:I've got a comment. Telling everyone that you are getting a permanent substitute and then rejoining the game when it turns in your favour is bang out of order.


Really, "Strategus"? Did you change your name because you're ashamed of the fact that you didn't take the game seriously and surrendered for no apparent good reason? You were supposed to be a platinum Classicist, as well, which I guess shows how much respect you had for that organization.

I had a medical condition, which continues to this day (to a far lesser degree). I posted that I had arranged for a substitute for the remainder of the game under the assumption that that might be required. Luckily for me, my physical situation improved to the point that I was able to return. I thought that it was my obligation to return as soon as I possibly could if I possibly could, so while I could've sat on the sideline for the rest of the game, I instead chose to come back as soon as I determined I was able.

I'm not really sure why you would care, though, considering that by the time I returned you had already ran off in a pathetic and childish huff. In arranging for a substitute, I did all I could to show respect for you and the other 5 players in the game, even though not a single one of you was my ally at the time. You, on the other hand, had zero respect for people who you had been working with for the vast majority of the game. You had zero respect for the game itself, for the League, for the Classicists, probably even for the site.

So join the chorus of folks calling me an idiot for the final result in the game if you'd like, but I'd strongly suggest getting off your high horse about the flow of the game itself. Your behavior in this game was the lowest of the low that I've seen in almost two years on this site.
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Re: PDL 1, Round 3, Game 1. AAR

Postby Strategus » 06 Sep 2018, 19:55

greggybear wrote:
Strategus wrote:I've got a comment. Telling everyone that you are getting a permanent substitute and then rejoining the game when it turns in your favour is bang out of order.


Really, "Strategus"? Did you change your name because you're ashamed of the fact that you didn't take the game seriously and surrendered for no apparent good reason? You were supposed to be a platinum Classicist, as well, which I guess shows how much respect you had for that organization.

I had a medical condition, which continues to this day (to a far lesser degree). I posted that I had arranged for a substitute for the remainder of the game under the assumption that that might be required. Luckily for me, my physical situation improved to the point that I was able to return. I thought that it was my obligation to return as soon as I possibly could if I possibly could, so while I could've sat on the sideline for the rest of the game, I instead chose to come back as soon as I determined I was able.

I'm not really sure why you would care, though, considering that by the time I returned you had already ran off in a pathetic and childish huff. In arranging for a substitute, I did all I could to show respect for you and the other 5 players in the game, even though not a single one of you was my ally at the time. You, on the other hand, had zero respect for people who you had been working with for the vast majority of the game. You had zero respect for the game itself, for the League, for the Classicists, probably even for the site.

So join the chorus of folks calling me an idiot for the final result in the game if you'd like, but I'd strongly suggest getting off your high horse about the flow of the game itself. Your behavior in this game was the lowest of the low that I've seen in almost two years on this site.

Don't think to tell me what I respect and what I don't You don't know what you are talking about, so stop talking.
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Re: PDL 1, Round 3, Game 1. AAR

Postby Charleroi » 06 Sep 2018, 20:04

jay65536 wrote:Charleroi, do you have any interest in an outsider's perspective on a couple of the things you talked about in your AAR? I was following the game starting around 1910-1911...if you do but don't think it's appropriate to put in the game AAR thread you could also PM me.


Would be happy to have your input Jay, right here is fine.

As for the other commentary, I'm still not sure why GPD resigned. I would be interested in hearing his reasoning.

And to our new Russia, I didn't persuade greggybear to take the draw -- it was his idea and I wasn't going to talk him out of it. As for your rating, yes, we can all see that you have had success on the site. That's not really the point. I didn't think you came across as a reasonable player when you joined, made an offer, and then declined to have any negotiation about your offer. You came into a game you had no connection to and said "do this or I will throw the game." That wasn't very appealing to me.
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Re: PDL 1, Round 3, Game 1. AAR

Postby greggybear » 06 Sep 2018, 20:21

Strategus wrote:Don't think to tell me what I respect and what I don't You don't know what you are talking about, so stop talking.


It's a pity that the league ended directly as a result of your tantrum and departure, because it's looking very clear that an already wonderful and amazing concept/experience would only have been enhanced by your absence.
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Re: PDL 1, Round 3, Game 1. AAR

Postby Strategus » 06 Sep 2018, 20:23

greggybear wrote:
Strategus wrote:Don't think to tell me what I respect and what I don't You don't know what you are talking about, so stop talking.


It's a pity that the league ended directly as a result of your tantrum and departure, because it's looking very clear that an already wonderful and amazing concept/experience would only have been enhanced by your absence.

Basically, everything you just said is untrue. Like I said. Stop talking if you can't get your facts straight.
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Re: PDL 1, Round 3, Game 1. AAR

Postby greggybear » 06 Sep 2018, 20:31

Strategus wrote:
greggybear wrote:
Strategus wrote:Don't think to tell me what I respect and what I don't You don't know what you are talking about, so stop talking.


It's a pity that the league ended directly as a result of your tantrum and departure, because it's looking very clear that an already wonderful and amazing concept/experience would only have been enhanced by your absence.

Basically, everything you just said is untrue. Like I said. Stop talking if you can't get your facts straight.


Is that so? On these forums, Mike made it very clear that your departure was the proverbial straw that broke the league camel's back. That fact certainly, by all evidence I've seen, appears correct. There's also a general consensus on this forum that the league was a wonderful and amazing concept and experience. Perhaps you disagree, perhaps you don't. So what have I said that's untrue? Enlighten me.

Many folks have asked why you quit, including Charleroi in a post just above these. Thus far, as far as I (and apparently Charleroi) have seen, you've declined to answer. I suppose there could be lots of reasons for that. What I know is that you felt the need today to attack me for getting a substitute and then returning to the game, which is a well established part of this site that I believe I used as intended. I explained my reasoning behind that decision, and I think it was the appropriate one.

Instead of saying I'm wrong and telling me to shut up, why don't you explain how I'm wrong? I know you're a gifted writer and I know you are more than capable of reasoning out a convincing argument. So do it. I'm not sure why you felt the need to come in and attack me today, but I did everything above board and with every intention of respecting the game and its players, from my first decision to seek a substitute, to my second decision to return, to my third decision to take a 2-way draw. My belief, wrong as it may be, is that you did not do the same.
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Re: PDL 1, Round 3, Game 1. AAR

Postby Strategus » 06 Sep 2018, 20:38

There were many surrenders and departures from the league, and you blame its complete failure on me? Ha!

And when you start abusing people, don't expect to get a civil response. All I said was something wsas out of order. You started abusing me personally. So why should I be interested in your "argument". My business is mine, and if I don't want to share it with you its tough tit boyo.
The Devil makes work for idle forces

Better to have fought and lost, than never to have fought at all
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