PDL 2. Round 1 Game 1. AAR

After game reports for PlaDip Diplomacy League games

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PDL 2. Round 1 Game 1. AAR

Postby mhsmith0 » 18 Mar 2018, 06:01

idk if mjparrett wants to be the guy to open up each of these, but there's nothing in the rules saying so, so here goes...

ENGLAND StarWatcher009
FRANCE mhsmith0 (3way DRAW)
ITALYDon Juan of Austria
GERMANY Shyvve
AUSTRIA Frenchie07001 (3way DRAW)
TURKEY Saturos (3way DRAW)
RUSSIA bishopbandit

Final position:
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Re: PDL 2. Round 1 Game 1. AAR

Postby mhsmith0 » 18 Mar 2018, 06:13

This AAR bit will ignore A LOT of the stuff that was said and when… but this game just DRAGGED absolutely painfully the whole damn time. 48 hour deadlines when on basically every single turn at least one player let it go to the very end completely sapped my ability to really give much of a shit, which was probably particularly apparent with some of the follies in the western waters in 1913. I also screwed up quite a bit on the diplomacy in early 1901, given that AIR and a hostile England were both things, but I worked my ass off on the diplomatic front for a bunch of turns after that to turn it from a potential AIR romp to a western triple that held together at least long enough for me to stop off elimination… and then when England stabbed me late game, I was in position to defeat him with the aid of A/T for an ultimately satisfying 3-way draw.


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Spring 1901: Horrifying spring phase for me, with a fairly strong A/I/R seemingly on the board AND England having gotten into the channel AND a move to wales which is super dangerous for me
The only decent thing for me here was that Italy went after Germany instead of me, partially due to the non-aggression pact we’d negotiated

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After a LOT of work, Germany and I collectively convinced England that A/I/R was REALLY dangerous (it was), and that we needed to work together to stop it (we did) and that an uncontested English fleet in Belgium was better than a contested army there, since obviously an army there could only go after one of us
Russia moving into Baltic was fairly interesting, definitely an effective way to ramp up the pressure on Germany

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Spring 1902: Here I told Italy I was bulding F Mar to come after England, which wasn’t really true but I kind of NEEDED to not have Italy come after me in that spot

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Here you can really see the coordination of AIR. Austria into Greece, Russia into Berlin, Italy still in Munich. Things aren’t exactly looking great for the rest of the board here. But…
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Austria stabs Italy pretty brutally, and that’s basically the end of AIR. England also makes moves consistent with a need to go anti-AIR, and now suddenly Russia is in BIG trouble up north, and a western triple is suddenly alive and dangerous, until…
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Spring 1903: Here England stabs Germany for no reason that I can particularly fathom, all the more so given that England can fairly easily try for STP by cutting support using Sweden-GOB (or getting Germany to support Sweden-GOB and then STP is 100% forced in the fall)… and England in STP that early, with a LOT of forces jostling about down south (not to mention Germany in Silesia which is just a potential dagger in Russia’s heart), is super powerful in terms of long term gain as well. I’m massively committed down south, so there really isn’t much of anything I can DO about it, but I’m quite unhappy. This was around when I realized that I simply couldn’t trust England at all.
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England CONTINUES to stick the knife into Germany, and in the extra time given, Russia goes from screwed to having an increasingly defensible position. I’m fully honoring the western triple agreement (and/or just E/F, it’s kind of hard to remember sometimes what happened when lol) , and at any rate I really don’t have anything better to do with my forces unless I want to massively switch sides, get into a war with England I might not win, and let the eastern half fo the board potentially swarm all over me.
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Winter 1903. This isa bout as defensive a build set as is humanly possible. I’m protecting myself against England while not making a build that will give him reason to come after me (in case it wasn’t clear, managing England was basically the most important and time-consuming thing I did all game)
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Spring 1904: England CONTINUES to do the opposite of what I want him to do (and abandoning Barents, which if nothing else keeps a lot of potential pressure on Russia to do whatever England wants, is ?????????? ), and now Russia has MASSIVE time to recover his position and basically go on offense again. Which, of course, he soon does. Meanwhile I’m SLOWLY grinding my way to a position where I can bury Italy (which is unfortunate; I thought we got along well, but I needed that southern fleet power GONE to potentially thrive)
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Gee, who could have possibly imagined that Russia would get super aggressive given time and a complete lack of English threat? R/A/T replaces A/I/R and we’re right back to the battle of the alliances, and suddenly E/F NEEDS Germany to hold down the center of the board, despite having been stabbed horribly by England.
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England is upset that Germany killed off Baltic, despite the fact that this essentially locked Germany out of ever threatening Scandinavia. Personally, I thought this was super pro-England but *shrugs*
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Spring 1905: I finally impress upon England the necessity of moving against Russia (had he done this back in 1903 we’re very possibly looking at E/F/G three-way draw, or even E/F/T if England wants to stab Germany later on), and he belatedly obliges. I’m vaguely hopeful the Romania move is a stab by Turkey but figure that it’s just a way to destroy the navy and help Russia build something up north.
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I’m correct about the destroy. I STRONGLY impress upon England the need to get into Baltic, or at least prevent Russia from getting there. I try to convince England to double move into Finland to permanently lock down Scandinavia, but England is getting greedy and wants STP ASAP. He has a coin flip on which of GOB/Finland to tap to end up with STP, and guesses wrongly. Oh well.
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With that extra build, Russia is now a much bigger potential pain in the ass. Thank goodness England was in Baltic here or we were kind of screwed.
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Spring 1906: I think this was basically Turkey’s concept of trying to shell down into a defensive position with something like 15 SC’s covered to force E/F/G to disintegrate. Meanwhile I basically bet the game with the convoy to Rome while leaving Tunis wide open. Thank goodness it works. Oh and England is above to move against the fleet in GOB, which was BY FAR Russia’s most potentially dangerous unit, and Russia destroys it instead of retreating to Livonia (probably unwise but oh well *shrugs*) England’s conquest of Scandinavia is now inevitable.
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Turkey tries for Tunis but can’t get there. Losing Rome is fine, I figured it’d go away. Austria is now in the position where it’s REALLY hard to get a fleet into TYS, so I have the ability to at absolute worst turn the southern threater into a total slog to conquer Tunis, as well as lock down the southern part of the Versailles line. You know, unless England stabs…
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Spring 1907, England continues his offensive, while I make some moves to try and push past the Versailles position. A/T work to finish off their former ally Russia while avoiding loss of their own stalemate defensive position.
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England just takes over Russia’s former space, and establishes himself as the leading power in the board. In the southern theater, I basically have things on a stalemate defensive position lockdown.
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Spring 1908: Lacking anything better to do with his navies, England moves into position to stab Germany. I’m not thrilled but I’m also not in position to really do much about it. Germany offers to throw centers to me, but I’ve kind of gotten lazy about planning… which was obviously kind of dumb on my end. I’m essentially just hoping to get a 4-way and go home. Have I mentioned that going into this game I’m at 9 France games, 9 outright losses? No? Well know I have :P
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England completes the stab of Germany, and I take Munich as agreed.
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England decides a 4-way isn’t good enough (fine), builds a stack of fleets (fine), and then essentially tells me it’s my fault for building an obviously defensive F Brest, and that he’s locked himself into an unbreakable defensive position, and that the absolute worst case for him is to get into a 3-way with A/T. WE SHALL SEE…
Also Germany destroys everything buthis Ruhr army, despite the obvious potential of getting support to hold Berlin. I should pay attention, but lolsmithlazy… :P
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Spring 1909: Germany stabs me, after I’d spent a LOT of the game trying to help him out. I am PISSED, and my public ranting reflects this. Fortunately, I’m into MAO, I move my fleets heavily west, and Turkey isn’t in the mood to stab me (E/A/T was an easy 3-way alliance potentially, so I’m pretty happy that this didn’t happen. Possibly this was because I was in position to throw the game to an English solo tho…
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Turkey STILL doesn’t stab me, and my defensive position is actually fairly good. Also A/T continues to shift forces up north, and will soon overwhelm England’s mere three armies in the Russian homeland.
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Losing Ruhr was a major blow here. Far from fatal (duh given outcome), but this pretty drastically cut down my options. Fortunately England was overly heavy on fleets, so despite a heavy presence in German homeland he couldn’t actually DO much with said forces.
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Spring 1910: I mend fences with Germany, to a degree (he’s out of the draw, but he does get a chance to keep a single center for tiebreaker and potentially screw over England, and if he’s happy with that, then so am I :) ). At the least, I’d rather him in Belgium than England. Meanwhile I now have two ships north of MAO (Brest and Gascony) AND MAO occupied… AND Turkey is coming too. Obviously a Turkish stab is possible, but England lacks the forces to stop an assault from F/A/T.
Oh and in the east, England loses his Ukraine army and now has zero chance of keeping Warsaw and Moscow for long. Destroys ho!
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Kind of a mess of activity… but notably Austria takes Warsaw, and Turkey gets closer to MAO.
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Spring 1911: I shift MAO into Spain NC, so we now have THREE fleets north of MAO, plus Portugal, and I’m VERY happy to see Turkey’s navy in MAO where he can be useful against England but not in much position to stab me. Also Moscow falls and England is in trouble all through the north/east.
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England completely abandons the ability to be south of the Versailles line to the east, but does have the ability to hold STP indefinitely. A/T is mainly defensive, while England is shifting west to fight in German homeland.
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Denmark goes, and Turkey builds A Ank, which won’t much matter. Loss of Denmark is rough on England though, that’s an army that could have been helpful.
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Spring 1912: I take a chance for a turn and leave Belgium completely undefended.. but England is making nice to Germany and doesn’t attack. I’m now even more set up to attack northern waters.
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Down goes Berlin and England’s position becomes increasingly desperate and helpless. It’s now a question of whether he can turn any of F/A/T against each other, or whether he wants to surrender by accepting FAT draw and keeping his SC count in the plus territory.
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Spring 1913: Turkey and I aren’t really communicating well, in that MAO-ENG supported by both Brest and Pic would have succeeded. However, I get Germany to get me into Holland, and England is even weaker. The attack on Kiel fails but oh well.
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Now I’m just getting REALLY lazy about organizing shit (I’d double supported Turkey to hold MAO, when he was actually moving to ENG), and Turkey loses his MAO position. OTOH Holland stays fallen and England will need to destroy… or we can just take the draw and all go home. Fortunately the latter is the answer! :D
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Re: PDL 2. Round 1 Game 1. AAR

Postby Don Juan of Austria » 18 Mar 2018, 07:11

Oh yay! "We" finished!
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Re: PDL 2. Round 1 Game 1. AAR

Postby mhsmith0 » 18 Mar 2018, 07:13

There's probably also something to be said for the unpleasantness of spending pretty much the entire game in the position of "can't really grow, can't ever come close to a solo, and the only leverage you have is the ability to throw the game to one group or another"

And
The
Game
Just
DRAAAAAGGGGGEEEEEEDDDDD
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Re: PDL 2. Round 1 Game 1. AAR

Postby Don Juan of Austria » 18 Mar 2018, 11:16

mhsmith0 wrote:And
The
Game
Just
DRAAAAAGGGGGEEEEEEDDDDD


Oh yes... It was painful to watch.
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Re: PDL 2. Round 1 Game 1. AAR

Postby jimbobicus » 18 Mar 2018, 12:26

First thoughts... I have to say I'm amazed that England agreed to a 3 way draw excluding him. However bad his diplomatic position, the board is the board and he's not doing too bad. It would take quite a while for him to be eliminated and things can change and swing back to his favour. Whatever I'm hearing from others, I'd be playing on and fighting to be included in the draw. Maybe you'd fail, but it's surely worth a shot. If you are going down, you might as well go down swinging :)

MHSmith: nice diagrams. How do you get these? I should do the same when I write my AAR once my game finishes
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Re: PDL 2. Round 1 Game 1. AAR

Postby champinoman » 18 Mar 2018, 13:27

mhsmith0 wrote:48 hour deadlines when on basically every single turn at least one player let it go to the very end completely sapped my ability to really give much of a shit

I was going to have a laugh at this because I almost never hit the finalize button and I'm also in league 2, but then realised that at no point over the 4 rounds do we share a game. How does that work?
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Re: PDL 2. Round 1 Game 1. AAR

Postby Iggy » 18 Mar 2018, 15:51

jimbobicus wrote:First thoughts... I have to say I'm amazed that England agreed to a 3 way draw excluding him. However bad his diplomatic position, the board is the board and he's not doing too bad. It would take quite a while for him to be eliminated and things can change and swing back to his favour. Whatever I'm hearing from others, I'd be playing on and fighting to be included in the draw. Maybe you'd fail, but it's surely worth a shot. If you are going down, you might as well go down swinging :)

MHSmith: nice diagrams. How do you get these? I should do the same when I write my AAR once my game finishes

I would be kind of curious to know how this happened... Seems crazy. I was certain this was ending in a 4 way split...
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Re: PDL 2. Round 1 Game 1. AAR

Postby Frenchie07001 » 18 Mar 2018, 15:52

Will take a look a bit later
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Re: PDL 2. Round 1 Game 1. AAR

Postby mhsmith0 » 18 Mar 2018, 19:39

jimbobicus wrote:First thoughts... I have to say I'm amazed that England agreed to a 3 way draw excluding him. However bad his diplomatic position, the board is the board and he's not doing too bad. It would take quite a while for him to be eliminated and things can change and swing back to his favour. Whatever I'm hearing from others, I'd be playing on and fighting to be included in the draw. Maybe you'd fail, but it's surely worth a shot. If you are going down, you might as well go down swinging :)

MHSmith: nice diagrams. How do you get these? I should do the same when I write my AAR once my game finishes


England was actually doing really badly at that point, and had zero defense against F/A/T

A/T is a difficult alliance to take to three way draw, so they neeeded a third unless they REALLY trusted each other... so it made sense to keep me along.

England also lacked the position to throw a solo to anyone; I had claim on his homeland territories, and A/T had claim on Scandinavia... and it would have been super difficult to change that. We also collectively did a good job keeping centers roughly balanced between, us, so it would be HARD to stab for a solo... and then you’re just left with a betrayal of France joining with just one of austria and turkey to make the two way... and that conversation never happened. I can’t say if austria or turkey might have tried to run something like that... but I also couldn’t initiate anything like that, because “screw it france is getting greedy let’s jus make it E/A/T” was an option they had, and one I had no actual defense against.

So England really didn’t have a way out, and taking the tiebreaker points at least put him in better position than the rest of the 0 points group.

Ps to get pics, tap orders history, then spring 1901 orders, then just click copy picture link and copy it to a word doc. If yiu then click on the picture itself it’ll take you to next phase and you can repeat as you like.
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