Распад: 2004.08 Autumn (Game Over & AAR's)

Created and GM'ed by Nopunin10did. A 10 player variant set in Europe and the Mid-East just after the collapse of the Soviet Union. Optional rules available for currying the favor of Nuclear States (nuclear weapons however remain unavailable).
Winner: WakaKafkaFlame (Kazakhstan)

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Re: Распад: 2004.08 Autumn (Game Over & AAR's)

Postby NoPunIn10Did » 03 Oct 2017, 18:12

WakaKafkaFlame wrote:Hey Yugoslavia and Poland!

You will both be pleased to know that I was able to use your prisoner's dilemma draw proposal almost immediately in my other game. Uncanny how similar the situations are in this one.

:twisted:

Cheers,

Ryan


For reference, this is the map at the end of the Spring turn for that game. It's the first time I've seen a game of 1900 near its end in a horse-race like this.

Image

It's a toss-up as to whether
  1. Russia gets 18+ SC's, France gets less, & Russia gets the solo
  2. France gets 18+ SC's, Russia gets less, & France gets the solo
  3. Everyone votes for the DIAS that Ryan proposed
  4. France & Russia tie at 18 SC's each, thus continuing the game
Being that I'm the GM, I won't comment too deeply on this, but Ryan seems to be hoping for either scenario (c) or (d) to occur.
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Re: Распад: 2004.08 Autumn (Game Over & AAR's)

Postby Walshie71 » 03 Oct 2017, 18:54

Waka/ Ryan is of course playing Britain, for interested Dissolution spectators.

All the best,

Walshie
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Re: Распад: 2004.08 Autumn (Game Over & AAR's)

Postby NoPunIn10Did » 03 Oct 2017, 19:32

Working list of proposed map & rules changes. This doesn't yet include changes to the Favor system.

While this is a long list, most of these changes are border tweaks. I've been using some mathematics from Paul Windsor & Charles Feaux de la Croix to measure "tempi" and relative spheres of influence, and these changes largely bring more influence and flexibility to some of the more beleaguered starting positions.

  1. Europe
    1. Denmark's Fleet will be omitted, and Denmark will become impassible territory
    2. Kaliningrad will be a fleet
    3. Gdansk, Olsztyn, Baltic Sea, & Kaliningrad will have a 4-way crossing
    4. Prague will be 1 VP
    5. Slovakia will become Bratislava, 1 VP
    6. Neutral armies in Prague & Bratislava will default to support-hold orders for each other (like Libya)
    7. A small chunk of Kiev will be separated out as Vinnytsia, so that Kiev is no longer adjacent to Moldova
    8. Romania's internal borders will be redrawn:
      • Iasi & Translyvania replaced with Cluj & Crisana
      • Cluj will border both Moldova and Hungary, and Crisana will be a buffer between Romanian SC's & Serbian SC's
      • Oltenia & Bucharest will be merged
      • Odessa will not border Cluj (no 4-way)
    9. Yugoslavia will be reorganized
      • Pristina will become Kosovo (non-SC), and Serbia will be restructured so that Kosovo includes more of the lower half of Serbia
      • Belgrade will not be adjacent to Bulgaria or Macedonia
      • Montenegro will become Podgorica (1 VP)
      • Sarajevo (2 VP) will become Bosnia & Herzegovina (1 VP)
      • A 4-way intersection will connect Croatia, Podgorica, Adriatic Sea, & Bosnia
  2. Middle East
    1. Gulf of Antalya will be merged into Levantine Sea, likely renamed to Eastern Mediterranean Sea
    2. Libyan Sea might be merged into Ionian Sea; if so, the border between Ionian & East Med will be redrawn so that Alexandria doesn't border the Ionian, but Benghazi will border East Med
    3. Riyadh will become 2 VP
    4. Dammam & Najran will be redrawn so that Dammam includes the whole Eastern Province
    5. Dammam will now border UAE; Dammam will technically have two coasts but will still behave as if it had a unified coastline
    6. Dammam, Yemen, Najran, & Oman will have a 4-way intersection
  3. Africa
    1. Khartoum will become 1 VP
    2. Equatoria will become Juba (1 VP)
    3. Like Afghanistan, Sudan is in a civil war, and its two units behave independently
    4. Fezzan will be merged into Tripoli
    5. Somaliland will be merged into Somalia
    6. Potential changes to Djibouti & surrounding
      • Djibouti will only include land (not hybrid land/sea space)
      • Djibouti will contain a NATO wing but will not be NATO territory
      • A five-way intersection will connect Eritrea, Djibouti, Gulf of Aden, Yemen, & Red Sea
  4. Asia
    1. Tajikistan will become 1 VP
    2. Kyrgyzstan will contain a Russian wing but will not be Russian territory
    3. Uzbekistan will be split into Nukus in the west and Tashkent in the east
    4. Each Uzbeki SC will be 1 VP, and their armies will default to support each other to hold (like Libya)
    5. Dagestan & Chechnia will be merged into Krasnodar
  5. Emergent Builds
    1. Currently, only the SC's that immediately border a power's home SC's start as legal build locations (and can grow from there)
    2. Now, any initially neutral SC that borders a power's initial territories (non-SC spaces included) will start as legal build locations
    3. Future builds will still grow via immediately adjacent SC's (neutral or otherwise)
    4. List of applicable spaces per power:
      • Egypt
        • Benghazi
        • Khartoum
        • Jordan
      • Ethiopia
        • Eritrea
        • Khartoum
        • Somalia
        • Juba
      • Iran
        • Azerbaijan
        • Iraq
        • UAE
        • Kandahar
        • Turkmenistan
      • Kazakhstan
        • Turkmenistan
        • Tashkent
        • Nukus
      • Pakistan
        • Kabul
        • Kandahar
        • Tajikistan
      • Poland
        • Belarus
        • Prague
        • Bratislava
        • Baltic States
      • Romania
        • Moldova
        • Bulgaria
        • Hungary
      • Saudi Arabia
        • Iraq
        • Jordan
        • Yemen
        • UAE
      • Ukraine
        • Belarus
        • Moldova
        • Hungary
        • Bratislava
      • Yugoslavia
        • Hungary
        • Croatia
        • Bosnia
        • Albania
        • Bulgaria
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Re: Распад: 2004.08 Autumn (Game Over & AAR's)

Postby ColonelApricot » 03 Oct 2017, 20:44

NoPunIn10Did wrote:
ColonelApricot wrote:1. Much discussion about how it is tough for the eastern powers to break out. Not so. Need to think about the southern ocean. It's a major threat to Ethiopia and somewhat to SA. A successful IR/PA alliance would easily make inroads to Africa/Yemen. A neutral in Dji would put Ethiopia near the bottom of the list for me.


Could you speak some more on this point? Do you think a NATO wing in Djibouti, assuming other nearby adjacencies are adjusted, would seriously cripple Ethiopia?

I still think there's value to adding the wings to Kyrgyzstan and Djibouti, though I'd be interested in hearing the pro/con arguments.


Re the start position Tbz is the only 2-dot that has a nuclear adjacent. Compare PA that has a buffer, ditto PO. What's to stop EG flying in to Sod, then attacking AdA or DiD? SOD needs to be blocked by a neutral army at least.

My greatest fear was an enemy unit in Ara. I went to any length to get a fleet there. A wing in Soa or Sod could defend it, but that's thin with Mum being able to support a fleet in there. W Dji is no help. Also it's really hard to knock off that Soa neutral.

Hope that's helpful. Still challenged with tech and access issues, sory.

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Re: Распад: 2004.08 Autumn (Game Over & AAR's)

Postby NoPunIn10Did » 03 Oct 2017, 20:59

ColonelApricot wrote:
NoPunIn10Did wrote:
ColonelApricot wrote:1. Much discussion about how it is tough for the eastern powers to break out. Not so. Need to think about the southern ocean. It's a major threat to Ethiopia and somewhat to SA. A successful IR/PA alliance would easily make inroads to Africa/Yemen. A neutral in Dji would put Ethiopia near the bottom of the list for me.


Could you speak some more on this point? Do you think a NATO wing in Djibouti, assuming other nearby adjacencies are adjusted, would seriously cripple Ethiopia?

I still think there's value to adding the wings to Kyrgyzstan and Djibouti, though I'd be interested in hearing the pro/con arguments.


Re the start position Tbz is the only 2-dot that has a nuclear adjacent. Compare PA that has a buffer, ditto PO. What's to stop EG flying in to Sod, then attacking AdA or DiD? SOD needs to be blocked by a neutral army at least.

My greatest fear was an enemy unit in Ara. I went to any length to get a fleet there. A wing in Soa or Sod could defend it, but that's thin with Mum being able to support a fleet in there. W Dji is no help. Also it's really hard to knock off that Soa neutral.

Hope that's helpful. Still challenged with tech and access issues, sory.

.. CA


When you can, have a look at the change list proposed (above your last post). Somaliland is going to merge with Somalia.

I haven't detailed out the whole Favor system changes yet, but these are core changes that should make the nuclear wings less of a liability, though still a problem should you piss off a nuclear power.

  • Each power only gets one Engage order per Winter unless they are raising two different nuclears from 1 Favor to 2 Favor.
  • A nuclear won't convoy a unit belonging to a power at less than 2 favor.
  • A nuclear won't convoy/support an attack from a player that's lower on the favor chart against a unit belonging player that's higher on that chart.
  • A nuclear won't convoy a player army into an empty SC space belonging to an opponent that's higher on the chart.
  • A nuclear won't convoy a player army into an empty SC space belonging to an opponent that's at Protected Status (5 favor).

Along with this will be some adjustments to starting Favor levels.
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Re: Распад: 2004.08 Autumn (Game Over & AAR's)

Postby ColonelApricot » 03 Oct 2017, 23:09

Bloody hell, Waka will be the only one that can get his noggin round all that stuff.

.. CA
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Re: Распад: 2004.08 Autumn (Game Over & AAR's)

Postby WakaKafkaFlame » 04 Oct 2017, 00:10

ColonelApricot wrote:Bloody hell, Waka will be the only one that can get his noggin round all that stuff.

.. CA


Nah, I usually try to let the dust settle on rules and whatnot before jumping in headfirst.

Edit: Nevermind, it all makes a fair amount of sense. My only suggestion would be to try to keep things as elegant as possible.
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Re: Распад: 2004.08 Autumn (Game Over & AAR's)

Postby NoPunIn10Did » 04 Oct 2017, 05:55

Map Version 2.0 Draft

Image

(Crossing arrows are missing, but everything else should be intact)
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Re: Распад: 2004.08 Autumn (Game Over & AAR's)

Postby NoPunIn10Did » 04 Oct 2017, 12:30

Now that I can visualize my proposed changes, I'm not so sure the "Vin" space in Ukraine is all that necessary. I'm also not sure Djibouti actually needs a wing.
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Re: Распад: 2004.08 Autumn (Game Over & AAR's)

Postby Subotai45 » 04 Oct 2017, 15:41

Maybe not, I forgot Romania is in disfavor at the start so Kiev isn't as endangered.

I really do think that there needs to be a wing somewhere down there. Ethiopia is relatively isolated: there's only one unit that can get to a home SC of his in a year, whereas most have at least two and others have up to four (Romania, Ukraine). Maybe bordering a home SC is too much, but I think there needs to be a wing.
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