Frustrated

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Frustrated

Postby Mr_Blobby » 25 Oct 2016, 01:20

I hope that you don't mind me using this forum to express my frustration.

I have been playing within the PlayDip site long enough to figure out that there are serious players and err ..... not so serious ones and I have always considered it part of the gamesmanship to determine who is which and who to trust and ally with.

Just lately, I have been finding that too many good games have been ruined (not necessarily because I lost :lol: ) by allies or even enemies first NMR'ing and then inevitably auto-surrendering. What I have found generally follows is that a new player joins from an account created the same day (or certainly a very new account) and proceeds to make random moves and not communicate as well as play completely illogically. Of course, we have the right to do all 3 if we wish.

I am just finding my inability to find a game with people that want to:

1. Communicate
2. Send messages more than 4 words long
3. Enter their moves (and ideally finalize when ready)
4. Play on until the end of the game even if they're are being defeated

frustrating to the point where I am just reluctant to bother unless I can find a game full of players with some 'form' which is in itself difficult. I am in no position based on my rank to be snobbish; it is just that it would be nice to be in a game with people that actually want to see it through to the end.

Do you think that I am expecting too much? What am I doing wrong or is this not 'par for the course' ?
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Re: Frustrated

Postby Machiara » 25 Oct 2016, 01:25

Have you tried Ambassador only games?
Personally I'm always ready to learn, although I do not always like being taught.

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Re: Frustrated

Postby Carebear » 25 Oct 2016, 01:31

Also, Classicist games.

Used to live in your neck of the woods.
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Re: Frustrated

Postby asudevil » 25 Oct 2016, 01:36

Nope...playing with new players SUCKS...cause they don't know the game...and don't realize that its slow moving...and takes a lot of time.

Play ambassador games (its why we made them)...or classicist games...or just make a game with a password and post it on the forum. Forum users are generally much more reliable than the regular player.

But yeah...it sucks
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Re: Frustrated

Postby Mr_Blobby » 25 Oct 2016, 01:55

Thanks for your thoughts so far. I like the idea of Ambassador games. It seems that I am not alone in my findings.

I was a classicist but I have given up because I was never able to sign up to a game and the last time I tried, the guy wouldn't give me the password and tried to tell me that I wasn't a classicist so if they want to be elitist, stuff them!
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Re: Frustrated

Postby Bromley86 » 25 Oct 2016, 02:01

One of the dangers of effectively creating 2 separate player groups is that new players will experience the worst the site has to offer. Not that I'm railing against Ambassadors or Classicists; I'm leaning towards sticking to those after a batch of NMRs.

One of the big strengths of the site for me is how easy it is to parachute players into surrendered positions. I'd like to see that made even easier, but it's pretty damn good as it is.

Looks to me like you'd be a Gold Classicist (whoop!), and the Classicists are a total fit for your list.
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Re: Frustrated

Postby Carebear » 25 Oct 2016, 02:14

Bromley86 wrote:One of the dangers of effectively creating 2 separate player groups is that new players will experience the worst the site has to offer. Not that I'm railing against Ambassadors or Classicists; I'm leaning towards sticking to those after a batch of NMRs.

One of the big strengths of the site for me is how easy it is to parachute players into surrendered positions. I'd like to see that made even easier, but it's pretty damn good as it is.

Looks to me like you'd be a Gold Classicist (whoop!), and the Classicists are a total fit for your list.

Your point about diverging player groups is well considered. Unfortunately, not everyone cares about their impact to other players or has a sustained interest in the game of Diplomacy. I don't think this can ever really be addressed.

It is clear for good play there needs to be games that focus on reliable play and is filled with reliable players. So, I think an informal separation of players is inevitable.

I think the solution to your concern is already in existence. Namely, the mentoring program. This exposes new players to how things should be done and provides them with a positive experience to offset any negative experiences they get through random game participation. As long as the mentoring out-reach continues to help pull the newbies out of the gutter, we have a mechanism for moving players from the negative group to the positive group.
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Re: Frustrated

Postby ruffdove » 25 Oct 2016, 09:31

I think it's important to encourage new players, but at the same time to be realistic about the new player demographic.

Like all (what I would define as) new players, I had never played Diplomacy before visiting this site. But there were some factors in my case that I think contributed to me becoming a successful and reliable player.

1) I had read about Diplomacy and its impact on other games I play and was genuinely interested in it. I didn't know the rules, but I had a general idea of what it was.

2) I'm an adult. This isn't to say that kids can't be good players or have a lasting interest in the game, but the game requires a maturity and patience level that is more common in adults.

3) I do play board games and I don't play video games. Again, video game players can of course be good Diplomacy players, but people used to the pace of video games and not slower games will find this game glacial and I think are more likely not to like it.

4) I enjoy writing. Not everyone does, and if you don't, then Diplomacy (at least the online or PBM versions of the game) will not appeal to you.

So is there anything you can do to weed out people who are unlikely to enjoy the game (saving them time and us grief)? I think so. You can have a tutorial that fully describes the game concept, its pacing with different deadlines, the amount of writing necessary, etc.

This is where everyone tells me that there are voluminous descriptions of the game, the rules, the etiquette, links to articles on strategy, and even a link to a YouTube video all available for the new player. And this is where I tell everyone that people who don't have the attention span for Diplomacy, also don't have the attention span to look into any of that before registering for an account and jumping into a game. So make it mandatory/unskippable for anyone trying to register an account. Then make a mentor game mandatory before any other game can be joined. People who are interested will WANT to play a mentor game first anyway. People who are not, either won't bother or will be weeded out in the mentor game.

This process would also discourage multi-accounting, IMO.
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Re: Frustrated

Postby Mr_Blobby » 25 Oct 2016, 10:39

Bromley86 wrote:One of the dangers of effectively creating 2 separate player groups is that new players will experience the worst the site has to offer. Not that I'm railing against Ambassadors or Classicists; I'm leaning towards sticking to those after a batch of NMRs.

One of the big strengths of the site for me is how easy it is to parachute players into surrendered positions. I'd like to see that made even easier, but it's pretty damn good as it is.

Looks to me like you'd be a Gold Classicist (whoop!), and the Classicists are a total fit for your list.



I could have been a Gold Classicist but what is the point if it is hard to find a game and then when you do, they won't give you the password to join? Seems crazy to me. Having read everyone's response, it seems to be more of a human problem than a problem with this PlayDip platform. I just think that it defeats the objects of the Classicists if they pick and choose who they want to play with within what is already a select group.
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Re: Frustrated

Postby Olive Branch » 25 Oct 2016, 10:52

ruffdove wrote:...So make it mandatory/unskippable for anyone trying to register an account. Then make a mentor game mandatory before any other game can be joined. People who are interested will WANT to play a mentor game first anyway. People who are not, either won't bother or will be weeded out in the mentor game.

This process would also discourage multi-accounting, IMO.


I'll second a motion for that. Excellent idea.
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