1812 Overture: 1818.07 Peace Declared (AAR thread)

A multi-continent game in which each player plays two countries in their attempt to win on a map centered on Europe and the North Atlantic set in 1812. Created and GM'ed by Nopunin10did

Moderator: Morg

Re: 1812 Overture: 1818.07 Peace Declared (AAR thread)

Postby asudevil » 25 Feb 2017, 15:20

Ill be honest nanook...you never stood a chance of getting me to work with you...but its nice to know I had you believing that.

My first messages to everyone was "lets team up on France and America"...get them knocked out...then go from there. You guys couldn't help each other...easy fear mongering....and anywhere else I wanted to get people together...it would have been like hey in America help me...while in Europe Im going to attack you.

So the cross ocean issues make it hard.

As for the rest of it...once I realized I no longer had the best shot at the solo (cause Austria did)...I had to go for the draw. But yeah...if Russia hadn't taken NAD I was realistically thinking I could take it this fall...but I was going to stab hard in America this year...and hope to hold on to Paris and the British Isles.
Captain FANG, forum team championships WINNER
Part of the surviving nations of WW4/Haven

Unless I am in the cheater's subforum. 99% of what I say is NOT as a mod.
User avatar
asudevil
Premium Member
 
Posts: 16606
Joined: 18 Jul 2011, 02:20
Class: Star Ambassador
Standard rating: (1351)
All-game rating: (1437)
Timezone: GMT-7

Re: 1812 Overture: 1818.07 Peace Declared (AAR thread)

Postby Nanook » 25 Feb 2017, 16:02

It wasn't my best game as far as reading people goes. On the other hand, I don't think it would've made much of a difference given the jump on USA and France because they're USA and France theme, which is comforting and disheartening at the same time.
Platinum Classicist
(h/t lordelindel)

Admin
User avatar
Nanook
 
Posts: 10923
Joined: 19 Jun 2014, 19:52
Location: East TN
Class: Star Ambassador
Standard rating: (1209)
All-game rating: (1413)
Timezone: GMT-5

Re: 1812 Overture: 1818.07 Peace Declared (AAR thread)

Postby I Love Italy » 25 Feb 2017, 19:21

My part in this game was fairly brief, and I think my AAR will be as well.

Like everyone's said, the odds were pretty stacked against the pairs going into the game. I knew it would be a tough sell for me to live past the first few years, but I tried my hardest. Even though it didn't work out, I'm proud of how I played this game, and enjoyed my time in it.

Right off the bat, I got messages from Joe and Asu. Both of them were trying to sell me on attacking the other one early on. Joe seemed a bit more shifty in his messaging, so I decided I was going to throw in my lots with Asudevil. The plan we came up with was to have a two front attack against Austria and Norway, with Asu and I attacking Norway (for the most part), and Jordan and I teaming up against Austria. During this whole time I tried to sell two points to keep me in the game

1) Due to not having a power in America, and requiring centers from both to solo, it was almost impossible for me to solo. Therefore, I'd be a loyal ally to the end, and an easy way to ensure that a draw didn't get too large, as I could knock out the other powers (that I wasn't allied with) in Europe fairly easily, if I survived the first couple of years.

2) Austria/Spain was in a very good position. Having essentially corner position on both continents, as well as being in the southern part of both, which would later allow easier control of the southern seas, was just too good of a position to allow someone to play from. So, I was gunning pretty hard for Joe.

At the same time, I was communicating with Nanook. We'd talked about, if we could each survive the first few years, going for a two-way draw, with each of us having one of the continents. I would've loved to have tried to make this happen, but alas, my game didn't last long enough to work on this at all.

In conclusion, I think it's an interesting variant, but I think there's very little that the "pairs" can do to survive the early game. They're just too inviting of a target for all the others to gang up on right at the start.

Thanks for GMing. I thought it went very smoothly.

Thanks to all the other players. It was a great match, and I enjoyed playing with you all.
I have special eyes.
User avatar
I Love Italy
 
Posts: 2357
Joined: 31 Jul 2013, 23:08
Class: Diplomat
Standard rating: (1041)
All-game rating: (1059)
Timezone: GMT-8

Re: 1812 Overture: 1818.07 Peace Declared (AAR thread)

Postby NoPunIn10Did » 25 Feb 2017, 23:40

I Love Italy wrote:Due to not having a power in America, and requiring centers from both to solo, it was almost impossible for me to solo. Therefore, I'd be a loyal ally to the end, and an easy way to ensure that a draw didn't get too large, as I could knock out the other powers (that I wasn't allied with) in Europe fairly easily, if I survived the first couple of years.


Just to forestall a misconception, you do not have to have centers in both continents to solo. One of the previous solos, playing the USA, had 18 SCs in North America and grabbed one in Europe as a bonus, but he could have won purely in the North American theatre.

I do agree, however, that I've made the French position on the map far too difficult. While the USA powers are actually not too bad off if they can prevent the everybody-kill-America bandwagon, the French are in a shitty position regardless.
Forum Admin & New Variant Development Assistant

Variant GM & Designer
User avatar
NoPunIn10Did
 
Posts: 2783
Joined: 17 Aug 2011, 00:17
Location: North Carolina
Class: Ambassador
Standard rating: (1000)
All-game rating: (1466)
Timezone: GMT-5

Re: 1812 Overture: 1818.07 Peace Declared (AAR thread)

Postby Jordan767 » 25 Feb 2017, 23:42

Part of the problem though is that it's such a hard bandwagon to prevent.
Silver Classicist.
Jordan767
 
Posts: 780
Joined: 21 Mar 2016, 06:35
Location: Colorado
Class: Ambassador
Standard rating: (947)
All-game rating: (958)
Timezone: GMT-7

Re: 1812 Overture: 1818.07 Peace Declared (AAR thread)

Postby asudevil » 25 Feb 2017, 23:52

Jordan767 wrote:Part of the problem though is that it's such a hard bandwagon to prevent.


Agreed...the "lets pile on America/France" bandwagon...is one that's easy to get behind...cause if they ARE going to solo...they have to wipe out everyone on that continent...so they HAVE to attack you if they want to solo...where the rest of us could "say" we wouldn't have to attack to get the double solo...or stab someone else...and even though its a lie...its a possible lie. America and France can't even say it with a straight face.
Captain FANG, forum team championships WINNER
Part of the surviving nations of WW4/Haven

Unless I am in the cheater's subforum. 99% of what I say is NOT as a mod.
User avatar
asudevil
Premium Member
 
Posts: 16606
Joined: 18 Jul 2011, 02:20
Class: Star Ambassador
Standard rating: (1351)
All-game rating: (1437)
Timezone: GMT-7

Re: 1812 Overture: 1818.07 Peace Declared (AAR thread)

Postby NoPunIn10Did » 27 Feb 2017, 18:52

asudevil wrote:
Jordan767 wrote:Part of the problem though is that it's such a hard bandwagon to prevent.


Agreed...the "lets pile on America/France" bandwagon...is one that's easy to get behind...cause if they ARE going to solo...they have to wipe out everyone on that continent...so they HAVE to attack you if they want to solo...where the rest of us could "say" we wouldn't have to attack to get the double solo...or stab someone else...and even though its a lie...its a possible lie. America and France can't even say it with a straight face.


From a design standpoint, I've been wrestling with how to handle this too. Some of it is just going to be part of the character of the variant, that USA/France have to work a little harder early on to not become the pile-on target.

In prior games, USA has had a lot more success in this regard than France. In the very first playtest, for instance, USA only became a target after having a highly successful and aggressive first year. In the second playtest, USA helped focus attention on a powerful Austria/Russia alliance instead. He slowly grew until a successful stab against Britain accelerated the USA into first place, eventually taking the solo.

One suggestion I've seen is to do away with the Double Win entirely as a means of mitigating this, but that was one of my initial goals with the variant, so I'm hesitant to dump it.
Forum Admin & New Variant Development Assistant

Variant GM & Designer
User avatar
NoPunIn10Did
 
Posts: 2783
Joined: 17 Aug 2011, 00:17
Location: North Carolina
Class: Ambassador
Standard rating: (1000)
All-game rating: (1466)
Timezone: GMT-5

Re: 1812 Overture: 1818.07 Peace Declared (AAR thread)

Postby NoPunIn10Did » 28 Feb 2017, 18:48

I've been thinking through some potential changes to this variant, and I'd love to hear your feedback.

Image

Major Map Changes:
  1. France's internal borders are restructured. No more split-coast Paris, they reflect the history a bit better.
  2. Hamburg is no longer a canal (since it wasn't actually built yet), and it has been removed from the map. Its territory is split between Amsterdam (a new French Home SC that used to be Netherlands) and Mecklenberg (a portion of the Rhine Confederation I'd forgotten to include).
  3. The Major Harbor that was in Hamburg is moved to Danzig (formerly Pomerania).
  4. Warsaw is no longer a Starting SC for France, but either France or Rhine may potentially use it as a build location.
  5. Warsaw borders Prague.
  6. Bosnia and Serbia were merged into a single province, and the SC is moved to Wallachia, positioning both Warsaw and Wallachia as early pickups for either Austria or Russia (or even hypothetically France).
  7. There's a four-way intersection between Bosnia & Serbia (BSe), Buda (Bud), Carpathians (Crp), and Wallachia (Wlc).
  8. Russia now starts shorthanded like Austria, but it has two Armies (Odessa and St. Petersburg).

The Army in StP gives Russia a lot more options to either move against Denmark-Norway or toward eastern Europe in the first year. Assuming Russia doesn't lose any SCs, it also means that Russia can build a fleet on either coast at the end of 1811.

Additionally, I'm thinking of adding the following stipulation to the Double Win. It should make some alliances less obvious, and in particular it should create more early friction between Russia and Austria (who so far have always acted as allies in the first turns). It also gives the USA and France a bit more of a "leg up" in early negotiations.

  • Not every pair of players can claim a Double Win: one player must be in control of Attached Powers, and the other player must control Detached Powers.
Forum Admin & New Variant Development Assistant

Variant GM & Designer
User avatar
NoPunIn10Did
 
Posts: 2783
Joined: 17 Aug 2011, 00:17
Location: North Carolina
Class: Ambassador
Standard rating: (1000)
All-game rating: (1466)
Timezone: GMT-5

Re: 1812 Overture: 1818.07 Peace Declared (AAR thread)

Postby asudevil » 01 Mar 2017, 01:08

I dislike your double win condition...cause that means that one power gets to take out all of on continent...and the other...which has to start detached...must LOSE all of that continent...and do double the work on the other side.

I don't like it...I like your other changes...and think that consolidating France and weakening Russia...probably will help plenty on its own.

BTW, I wouldn't make WAR a build center for France...they already can drop units in their home SC and the major harbors all over...they don't need another build center.
Captain FANG, forum team championships WINNER
Part of the surviving nations of WW4/Haven

Unless I am in the cheater's subforum. 99% of what I say is NOT as a mod.
User avatar
asudevil
Premium Member
 
Posts: 16606
Joined: 18 Jul 2011, 02:20
Class: Star Ambassador
Standard rating: (1351)
All-game rating: (1437)
Timezone: GMT-7

Re: 1812 Overture: 1818.07 Peace Declared (AAR thread)

Postby NoPunIn10Did » 01 Mar 2017, 02:04

asudevil wrote:I dislike your double win condition...cause that means that one power gets to take out all of on continent...and the other...which has to start detached...must LOSE all of that continent...and do double the work on the other side.

I don't like it...I like your other changes...and think that consolidating France and weakening Russia...probably will help plenty on its own.

BTW, I wouldn't make WAR a build center for France...they already can drop units in their home SC and the major harbors all over...they don't need another build center.


Thanks for this feedback. I've mentioned some of these changes to my PBEM players too, and the consensus seems to be that the proposed Double Win limitation isn't good.

As for Warsaw, I do want to maintain some rules-oriented connection between France and that province since it was the launching point of Napoleon's invasion. Its existence as an "independent" state that was in practice dominated by the Emperor was a sore spot for the Russians, Prussians, and Habsburgs. The likelihood of it becoming simultaneously French-owned, vacant, and relevant seems shallow enough that I doubt it will provide much strategic advantage.

If it does turn out to be a problem, I'll revisit.
Forum Admin & New Variant Development Assistant

Variant GM & Designer
User avatar
NoPunIn10Did
 
Posts: 2783
Joined: 17 Aug 2011, 00:17
Location: North Carolina
Class: Ambassador
Standard rating: (1000)
All-game rating: (1466)
Timezone: GMT-5

PreviousNext

Return to 1812 Overture [Game 1] {All Maps Visible}

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests