Request to disqualify the Griffin due to linkage to Romanov

Periodically, PlayDip refreshes the standard set of army/fleet icons used on its map. This subforum is where you can discuss and vote for the icon sets the site will use.

Request to disqualify the Griffin due to linkage to Romanov

Postby TimaeusLocri » 24 Apr 2015, 09:14

Greetings,
I like to have an investigation started about the Griffins in the Icon Ballot. It seems that the Griffin is a coat of arms of House Romanov, the family that ruled Russia until 1917 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Romanov). As you will understand, I think we cannot accept to play diplomacy with a set that favors one of the major powers on the board, in this case Russia.
I therefor think we should disqualify the Griffin from the Icon Ballot!
Kind regards,
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Re: Request to disqualify the Griffin due to linkage to Roma

Postby rick.leeds » 24 Apr 2015, 09:39

Um... I'm going to take this as a light-hearted comment in an attempt to keep the Dino ;)

If it isn't, and it's serious, then I should point out that a griffin has been used in a number of coats-of-arms in one way or another.

And I'm moving this to the icon ballot sub-forum because it really isn't anything to do with site rules... unless we take it seriously and think that an inanimate icon could mean that one power has a better chance of winning :lol:
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Re: Request to disqualify the Griffin due to linkage to Roma

Postby Daximus » 24 Apr 2015, 10:42

I think it's fairly clear that the icons would grant an immeasurable morale boost to any Russian player. As well as various arguments that the purple Griffin rightly deserves to be placed at every center, providing them with unfair negotiating leverage. I therefore agree with TimaeusLocri that the icon set be removed and that the Dinos and Sharks reign supreme over the other icons.
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Re: Request to disqualify the Griffin due to linkage to Roma

Postby super_dipsy » 24 Apr 2015, 10:50

Democracy is such a bummer ;)
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Re: Request to disqualify the Griffin due to linkage to Roma

Postby Daximus » 24 Apr 2015, 10:59

Democracy is great, but sometimes it gets it wrong. That's where a strong and powerful leader must step in and make the executive decision to ignore those voting and select the correct choice, Dinos.
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Re: Request to disqualify the Griffin due to linkage to Roma

Postby Alman » 24 Apr 2015, 15:10

Your Honor, members of the jury, I rise today on behalf of my client, the noble Griffin, who is very dismayed by these baseless smears against him and his application for the job of icon.
While it is true that he did enter into a marketing agreement with the Russian empire long ago, he wishes to remind the court that this is just one of many licensing agreements and that the breadth of his contracts demonstrate that he has no conflict of interest when and if he is chosen to represent any of the nationalities in any variant.

He points to the fact that he has history with ancient Greece, Persia, and Egypt. He points to his representation in Pisa, Italy in the 11th century and his work on the Republic of Genoa's coat of arms during the Middle Ages and Renaissance.

He also points to his favored usage in British heraldry and presence in many coats of arms of families from the UK.

Your honor, my client makes it clear that any link to Russian history and the Romanov's is incidental to his wide appeal. Thank you.
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Re: Request to disqualify the Griffin due to linkage to Roma

Postby I Love Italy » 24 Apr 2015, 15:11

super_dipsy wrote:Democracy is such a bummer ;)

Yes, but feudalisms worse, which is why we can't give the Romanovs this boost.
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Re: Request to disqualify the Griffin due to linkage to Roma

Postby SaltySailor » 24 Apr 2015, 15:57

Griffins, while most common in the art and lore of Ancient Greece, have been found depicted in Ancient Persian and Ancient Egyptian art dating back to before 3000 BC. By the time of 400 BC, the Griffin had spread to all corners of the Ancient World as a "protector from evil, witchcraft and secret slander".

In medieval lore, the courage and boldness of the Griffin has been adopted by the royal crests of families, cities and states from across the Western World. The Republic of Genoa, the City of London, Kasteel de Haar Netherlands, the British Monarchy, the duke of Pomerania, Griefswald Germany, Coat of arms of Crimea, Utti Jaegar Regiment of the Finnish Army... the list is endless and broad.

Oh, and the "Johnny Come Lately" Romanovs. pffft. The venerable Griffin was deeply entrenched in the nobility of Europe centuries before the ancestor of the Romanovs, Andrei Kobyla, served as a horse trainer for Semyon I of Moscow in 1347.
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Re: Request to disqualify the Griffin due to linkage to Roma

Postby ExiledAtHome » 24 Apr 2015, 16:31

I'm astounded that there is such an affinity among Diplomacy players for Dino icons. Truly.
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Re: Request to disqualify the Griffin due to linkage to Roma

Postby Antigonos » 24 Apr 2015, 17:11

I have a deep dislike for the Dinosaur and Shark icons but on the question of the Griffin it seems to me that despite it's frequent use in the coat of arms throughout Europe and it appearance in the art and myth of earlier civilizations in the early 20th Century and indeed even today the Griffin's association with the Romanov dynasty is inescapably powerful. To put it in contemporary terms it is the brand image of the Romonovs and thus inappropriate as an icon.
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