New Fantasy CYOC- READ THIS FIRST

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Re: New Fantasy CYOC- READ THIS FIRST

Postby sinnybee » 05 Mar 2019, 04:09

I'd say that, especially with the lack of much medical technology, you cannot expect an average woman to bear more than 6 children. Some women with 12, some with 9, some with 6, some with 3, some with 0, etc. If they are mostly bearing children between the age of 15 and 35, with age 25 on average, you get a generation of 25 years. The maximum average birth of 6 per pair is a tripling of age per generation.
3 ^ (1/25) = 1.0449
A limitation of 4.5% population growth rate per year.
IMO
A limitation of 4% normally; 5% if the player can explain/justify it.
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Re: New Fantasy CYOC- READ THIS FIRST

Postby jpstreetman » 05 Mar 2019, 05:39

One thing people are not taking into account is fantasy. what if orcs or elves are genetically predisposed to multiples? What if a cleric can pop in to cast cure wounds and cure diseases? What if there is a druid cleansing the water and food+ magically increasing crop growth not only giving more food access to feed new crotch goblins, but also more time for peasants to get it done. I think growth can be a little higher assuming any of the fantasy elements allow it.
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Re: New Fantasy CYOC- READ THIS FIRST

Postby Telleo » 05 Mar 2019, 06:28

jpstreetman wrote:One thing people are not taking into account is fantasy. what if orcs or elves are genetically predisposed to multiples? What if a cleric can pop in to cast cure wounds and cure diseases? What if there is a druid cleansing the water and food+ magically increasing crop growth not only giving more food access to feed new crotch goblins, but also more time for peasants to get it done. I think growth can be a little higher assuming any of the fantasy elements allow it.


Fair enough, although in most reference material Elves, at least, reproduce at much lower rates than humans.
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Re: New Fantasy CYOC- READ THIS FIRST

Postby musashisamurai » 05 Mar 2019, 06:44

Hi Everyone,

Had to ask sjg for permission first before I just posted it here but in the vanilla CYOC we have a Discord server we use...the Forum is still the official home, and is significantly better organized and archivable, but Discord is neat for diplomacy because you can talk and message faster than PMs, and hold group conversations easily. We set up a channel for FCYOC as well.

Purely optional but some folks prefer it. I personally like posting here, but PMing there.

The link is
https://discord.gg/pgFpm8T
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Re: New Fantasy CYOC- READ THIS FIRST

Postby sinnybee » 05 Mar 2019, 10:48

jpstreetman wrote:One thing people are not taking into account is fantasy. what if orcs or elves are genetically predisposed to multiples? What if a cleric can pop in to cast cure wounds and cure diseases? What if there is a druid cleansing the water and food+ magically increasing crop growth not only giving more food access to feed new crotch goblins, but also more time for peasants to get it done. I think growth can be a little higher assuming any of the fantasy elements allow it.

I am taking fantasy into account.
Maybe it could happen, but would it happen?
Can you give a fantasy reference in which the females of a human-like race (not talking about rabbits here) on average had 7, 8, or 9+ kids each (while taking into account those who have no or a small amount of kids, for whatever reason)? Even if you could, I doubt I'd agree with the author.

I would argue that with magic or medicine, while advancements reduce death, they most often create a culture that isn't having a high amount of reproduction.

Even when settlers are being sent out to expansive and fertile plots of land, you have to average the entire country. Even when just looking at the settlers, if you claim an average of 10 kids, that means that basically, for each example of 5 kids, there needs to be an example of 15 kids, for 3 kids happening somewhere, there needs to be 17 kids happening elsewhere, and I just don't see that happening, not at all.

I've had a lot of relatives and ancestors who had a lot of kids, including my great great grandfather (same last name as me) who had 17 kids. However, it was 10 kids with the first wife, then she died, then 7 kids with the second wife. So, it's 8.5 kids per mother. Then, say there's a woman working as a nanny who, while keeping so busy helping to watch all those kids, only has a chance for one kid of her own. Now we're down to 18/3=6 kids per woman. Then, say there's a woman who's a cook for the family who, while keeping so busy with all that cooking, only has a chance to have two kids of her own. Now we're down to 20/4=5 kids per woman.

Having twins/triplets/quadruplets etc. doesn't make it much easier for parents and nannies and cooks etc. to care for a huge abundance of kids.

For a short period of time, a country can have a high period of reproduction, say after a war. However, when you look at the whole span of the life of an average woman in the country, I really can't see anyone justifying an average of more than 6 kids.
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Re: New Fantasy CYOC- READ THIS FIRST

Postby Subotai45 » 05 Mar 2019, 11:57

Plus (if someone wants to check my math that’d be good) if you have a high growth rate your country is all kids really fast. Like if you have a pop growth of five, after fifteen years true majority of your population will be kids or teens.
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Re: New Fantasy CYOC- READ THIS FIRST

Postby mat.gopack » 05 Mar 2019, 20:08

Hi all, sjg is going to be busy for the next week or so. If you need anything judged, I'm the person to contact during this time.
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Re: New Fantasy CYOC- READ THIS FIRST

Postby Keirador » 05 Mar 2019, 22:00

sinnybee wrote:
jpstreetman wrote:One thing people are not taking into account is fantasy. what if orcs or elves are genetically predisposed to multiples? What if a cleric can pop in to cast cure wounds and cure diseases? What if there is a druid cleansing the water and food+ magically increasing crop growth not only giving more food access to feed new crotch goblins, but also more time for peasants to get it done. I think growth can be a little higher assuming any of the fantasy elements allow it.

I am taking fantasy into account.
Maybe it could happen, but would it happen?
Can you give a fantasy reference in which the females of a human-like race (not talking about rabbits here) on average had 7, 8, or 9+ kids each (while taking into account those who have no or a small amount of kids, for whatever reason)? Even if you could, I doubt I'd agree with the author.

Mostly agree, with the major exception being "evil races." The Tolkien tradition seems to be that if you're a baddie, it's pretty trivial to raise an army of tens or even hundreds of thousands of Orcs out of basically nowhere, all of whom are described as fearsome, ferocious, deadly warriors, but none of whom can seem to land a killing blow against named characters.

Similarly, the Dungeons & Dragons lore has races like Goblins and Kobolds reproducing at a very fast clip for a steady source of mooks for the party to kill.

For the endangered "good races" like humans and elves to frequently face down and overcome "impossible odds" and be all heroic single-handedly cutting down wave after wave of enemies, and to do this like every generation or so for the new heroes, the baddies have to be able to rebuild their numbers right quick.
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Re: New Fantasy CYOC- READ THIS FIRST

Postby mat.gopack » 06 Mar 2019, 00:11

Keirador wrote:
sinnybee wrote:
jpstreetman wrote:One thing people are not taking into account is fantasy. what if orcs or elves are genetically predisposed to multiples? What if a cleric can pop in to cast cure wounds and cure diseases? What if there is a druid cleansing the water and food+ magically increasing crop growth not only giving more food access to feed new crotch goblins, but also more time for peasants to get it done. I think growth can be a little higher assuming any of the fantasy elements allow it.

I am taking fantasy into account.
Maybe it could happen, but would it happen?
Can you give a fantasy reference in which the females of a human-like race (not talking about rabbits here) on average had 7, 8, or 9+ kids each (while taking into account those who have no or a small amount of kids, for whatever reason)? Even if you could, I doubt I'd agree with the author.

Mostly agree, with the major exception being "evil races." The Tolkien tradition seems to be that if you're a baddie, it's pretty trivial to raise an army of tens or even hundreds of thousands of Orcs out of basically nowhere, all of whom are described as fearsome, ferocious, deadly warriors, but none of whom can seem to land a killing blow against named characters.

Similarly, the Dungeons & Dragons lore has races like Goblins and Kobolds reproducing at a very fast clip for a steady source of mooks for the party to kill.

For the endangered "good races" like humans and elves to frequently face down and overcome "impossible odds" and be all heroic single-handedly cutting down wave after wave of enemies, and to do this like every generation or so for the new heroes, the baddies have to be able to rebuild their numbers right quick.

Honestly I find the concept of 'evil' races to be pretty lazy worldbuilding and boring, and I hope we don't have any that go that route in FCYOC. A violent/aggressive/expansionist society is one thing, but I don't like it being seen as irrevocable and genetic like a lot of classic fantasy does.

Though in most of those sources, the 'monstrous' races probably have some sort of growth advantage that helps them there. Eg, kobolds lay eggs, and probably have a whole bunch of them at once. Goblins could be similar, or have shorter gestation. It's different when it's meant to be in an FCYOC like context, where everyone is playing by the same rules ;)
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Re: New Fantasy CYOC- READ THIS FIRST

Postby Keirador » 06 Mar 2019, 00:20

mat.gopack wrote:Honestly I find the concept of 'evil' races to be pretty lazy worldbuilding and boring, and I hope we don't have any that go that route in FCYOC.

I mean. . . check your PMs. ;-)
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