General questions about Diplomats and Ambassadors

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General questions about Diplomats and Ambassadors

Postby Fatmo » 14 Feb 2014, 22:20

I find it interesting that only two out of the top ten and five of the top 25 are stars.

Cool little feature though :)

Turns out I'm a star, but might as well replace that with "Crazy OCD person who has to make sure all basses are covered" ;)
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Re: Star Ambassador Data Questions

Postby WHSeward » 14 Feb 2014, 22:55

A few of questions I haven't found the answer to yet.

Can diplomat-class players create ambassador class games? Can they join the games they create?

Can diplomat-class players substitute in an ambassador class game? Can they pick up a surrendered position in such games?
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Re: Star Ambassador Data Questions

Postby jaelis » 14 Feb 2014, 23:10

WHSeward wrote:Can diplomat-class players create ambassador class games? Can they join the games they create?

I know the answer to this is 'no.' Not sure about your second question, but I suspect not.
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Re: Star Ambassador Data Questions

Postby starkrush » 15 Feb 2014, 03:31

Can I check how close I am to not being one? I don't consider myself prolific at all - though perhaps it's those long message chains that take undue weighting!
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Re: Star Ambassador Data Questions

Postby super_dipsy » 15 Feb 2014, 06:46

WHSeward wrote:A few of questions I haven't found the answer to yet.

Can diplomat-class players create ambassador class games? Can they join the games they create?

I think I could use some help here. You are not the first to ask this question, but I confess I am rather at a loss. Perhaps I need to do something different with the wording. In the introduction (the link in the announcement), the very first paragraph says
Diplomats and Ambassadors are two new player classes that reflect people's proven playing styles in terms of reliability. Ambassadors have proven to have an aversion to surrenders and NMRs, and can create Ambassador-only games if they choose which will only be available to other Ambassadors.

It then carries on
This is how the Diplomat / Ambassador implementation works.

The main principle
All players at PlayDiplomacy will be sorted into two player classes, displayed on their Statistics display and also on the forum; Diplomat or Ambassador. New members will always start off as Diplomats, but players with a proven aversion to surrenders and NMRs can quickly attain Ambassador status. When you create a game, Ambassadors will have the option of marking the game ‘Ambassadors Only’. All other games will be available to either group in the same way they are today.



As Jaelis said, the answer is that yes indeed, Ambassadors have the option to create Ambassadors Only games while Diplomats do not. Perhaps part of the confusion is the Star Ambassadors - but remember, Star Ambassadors are Ambassadors in group terms, but just with the Star honorific. So to be clear, Star Ambassadors can also create and join Ambassador games.

I think perhaps what I better do is put a Q&A in the list and also change the wording in the information to make it clear that Ambassador-Onlyy games are only for Ambassadors and that Star Ambassadors count as Ambassadors and that Diplomats cannot create Ambassador-Only games or participate in them. But if anyone has any advice on how to make this clear to all, I am very willing to take it :)

WHSeward wrote:Can diplomat-class players substitute in an ambassador class game? Can they pick up a surrendered position in such games?

Again, I hoped it was evident from the text in the first paragraph that Ambassador-Only games are only available for Ambassadors to play - similar to the fact that games with premium options (new maps, etc) are only available to premium players whether joining at the start, as a surrendered country or as a substitute. I think I need to make that clearer too by the sound of it.

I will take another crack at the wording. I suppose because I have been so close to it I know what it means, but it appears it is not obvious to others and that is my error.
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Re: Star Ambassador Data Questions

Postby super_dipsy » 15 Feb 2014, 07:03

I have changed some of the wording and also in the main announcement after the link to this subforum I have added the following

You can read all about the new system here http://www.playdiplomacy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=657&t=43283.

For anyone who does not have the time to follow the link, perhaps the key points about the Diplomat and Ambassador classes are as follows:
- Diplomat is the default class
- You have to have a good record of not missing orders or surrendering to become an Ambassador
- Ambassadors (only) can create Ambassador-Only games which only Ambassadors can take part in (join, substitute, etc)
- All other games are open to Diplomats and Ambassadors
- A Star Ambassador is an Ambassador in these terms, but with the Star honorific


Hopefully this will help?
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Re: Star Ambassador Data Questions

Postby WHSeward » 15 Feb 2014, 07:26

Actually Dipsy, I think your roll out documentation is marvelous. I wrote as much to ASUdevil this morning.

I was about to post this and I see you have posted again ahead of me so maybe this is already obsolete. I will just hit submit and come back and edit as needed.

Can diplomat-class players create ambassador class games? Can they join the games they create?

I rather assumed the answer to the first was "no" & the second was therefore moot. I just wanted to confirm, since diplomats can create games and it appears the check box will be there for them. It was possible to implement the system differently.

Your documentation is explicit on the ambassador-side. I think by adding the "(only)" you have already cleared this up. If you mirror it on the diplomat-side, then there will be no room for any doubt. I'd add once sentence, something like this:

The main principle
All players at PlayDiplomacy will be sorted into two player classes, displayed on their Statistics display and also on the forum; Diplomat or Ambassador. New members will always start off as Diplomats, but players with a proven aversion to surrenders and NMRs can quickly attain Ambassador status. When you create a game, Ambassadors (only) will have the option of marking the game ‘Ambassadors Only’. All other games will be available to either group in the same way they are today. Diplomats will not be allowed to join ‘Ambassadors Only’ games, either at the outset, as a substitute, or a replacement player following a surrender.


And yes, adding a FAQ near the top that just repeats the main points - only Ambassadors can create or play in ‘Ambassadors Only’ games in any capacity should do the trick.

I will say, it might proove tricky. If diplomats can neither substitute nor pick up surrendered positions, and they represent 80% of the player pool, it will mean ambassador games will have a pool of players 5X smaller to fill those open positions as they occur. I don't know if that will be a problem. We will have to watch it I guess.
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Re: Star Ambassador Data Questions

Postby super_dipsy » 15 Feb 2014, 08:05

WHSeward wrote:I will say, it might proove tricky. If diplomats can neither substitute nor pick up surrendered positions, and they represent 80% of the player pool, it will mean ambassador games will have a pool of players 5X smaller to fill those open positions as they occur. I don't know if that will be a problem. We will have to watch it I guess.

I think you may have forgotten something :) . Ambassador-only games will be played by Ambassadors who by definition do not Surrender. There may be the odd one or two surrenders, but with a pool of over 1200 Ambassadors it should not be too hard to get a replacement, but as I say this (I assume) will be VERY rare.

As for your wording suggestion, I do not plan to add that. The reason is a little difficult to explain and might just spark more controversy, so I am not going to ;) . I would contend that the extra line is pretty obvious anyway.

However, one other thing I think I will do - this thread has moved from being one about Star Ambassador data to a general one about the new classes. I think it might be helpful to split it, so others can find the additional questions not hidden under a title that was about a more specific issue.
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Re: General questions about Diplomats and Ambassadors

Postby WHSeward » 15 Feb 2014, 09:08

super_dipsy wrote:I think you may have forgotten something :) . Ambassador-only games will be played by Ambassadors who by definition do not Surrender. There may be the odd one or two surrenders, but with a pool of over 1200 Ambassadors it should not be too hard to get a replacement, but as I say this (I assume) will be VERY rare.


You know the data, so you have me at a disadvantage. If the threshold to be Ambassador is 10% surrender rate, surrenders might not be that rare depending on the average rate of the group. But since you have the data, I trust you.

The wording is all your call. Do with that as you see fit!

And yes, I posted this in the wrong spot. :oops:
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Re: General questions about Diplomats and Ambassadors

Postby asudevil » 15 Feb 2014, 15:12

WHSeward wrote:
super_dipsy wrote:I think you may have forgotten something :) . Ambassador-only games will be played by Ambassadors who by definition do not Surrender. There may be the odd one or two surrenders, but with a pool of over 1200 Ambassadors it should not be too hard to get a replacement, but as I say this (I assume) will be VERY rare.


You know the data, so you have me at a disadvantage. If the threshold to be Ambassador is 10% surrender rate, surrenders might not be that rare depending on the average rate of the group. But since you have the data, I trust you.


Its not 10% surrender rate...its that IF you surrender and its the only one in the last 10...you are safe....but many of the people in Ambassador Im sure are WAY under that.
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