Double Dip (gunboat) - AAR

GM: connect4; Winner: Turkey

Double Dip (gunboat) - AAR

Postby connect4 » 15 Oct 2013, 16:37

AAR content to come here in a bit; feel free to discuss the game, and any suggested changes for future versions. I have a couple of things I might change if I ran this again in the gunboat version, but I'll certainly look forward to anyone's feedback.
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Re: Double Dip (gunboat) - AAR

Postby asudevil » 15 Oct 2013, 16:55

Overall I liked it...super mad that I couldn't get my early build for Italy down which really doomed my run to 21 so I was going for a dual with Germany, but shibabalo wouldn't let me get any units east to conflict with him.

I knew this was going to be the end, but I had to keep growing and hope to get Germany to the dual before Shibabalo won the solo.
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Re: Double Dip (gunboat) - AAR

Postby sjg11 » 15 Oct 2013, 17:03

Tough game for me. Who was my partner for Austria? I came up with a great plan for gaining Greece a year early while also being able to defend Serbia and it was messed up.

I absolutely loved the idea though.
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Re: Double Dip (gunboat) - AAR

Postby EpicDim » 15 Oct 2013, 17:07

Congrats GT. I actually played in the very first test game of Double Dip back in 1997 on the judges.

I had forgotten about this until I went and started searching the web for my old games and sure enough it's still out there. http://www.mellekoning.nl/diplomacy/doubdip.html (For those who are curious)

I think the same problem haunts this now as then. IMO, no one should get close to a solo victory. GI should have stopped GT from getting this big. I learned (albeit a little slowly) that GT was not putting in orders for Turkey at all, but as soon as G started attacking E I shut Turkey down to no growth and once EA started fighting me for control of E I just let him have it. I even let EA take some Turkish centers to slow down GT.

Two differences between the very first game and this one.

1) The NMRs or No Orders = Hold vs No Orders means the other players orders are taken is a huge difference. I think this is a cop out that the players don't have to work together and I'm disappointed that GI did not put a stop to the GT growth. I'm interested to hear GI's thoughts.

2) The override order. To be honest I forgot about it after 1902. I think it could be every season or it's just too far removed. Once every 2 years is just too few. Maybe with press I would have remembered it and been able to use it more effectively. But I think with press this game will stalemate because of the ability to lock down everyone's growth.

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Re: Double Dip (gunboat) - AAR

Postby asudevil » 15 Oct 2013, 17:17

I was GI...and after realizing how little Italy was able to get done, I was hoping for a double victory with Germany.

And GT didn't put in orders for Germany either....which makes me think that Shibablo did little other that realize he wanted to stay out of his "partners" way and if he did he would get the most growth because there wouldn't be as many holds.

Which really is a decent idea and I thought about it early, but I was afraid that the other person would think the same way (which Shibablo did) and I didn't want to have a full no orders.

But yeah, I was really just trying to race the dual with Germany...I had it too...he just got the last one he needed as well.
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Re: Double Dip (gunboat) - AAR

Postby attitudes » 15 Oct 2013, 18:53

sjg11 wrote:Tough game for me. Who was my partner for Austria? I came up with a great plan for gaining Greece a year early while also being able to defend Serbia and it was messed up.

I was. If I recall correctly, that plan got messed up because I forgot to issue an order for Greece that turn which would have been Greece hold. Instead, your move GRE-SER was used but there wasn't another army order to bounce it. In this variant, intricate plans like self-bouncing are very tricky.

Couple of questions for you though.

It seemed that you did not want Austria to attack Italy early on even though France was moving that direction? I tried almost every season to get our fleet into the Adriatic but to no avail. Turkey was moving north into Russia as I suspected he would given that he controlled England along with me. Perhaps it was a coincidence that England moved consistently against Russia. :roll:

What was the purpose of all your hold and support orders for the last several years? How did you expect to create growth for Austria and perhaps more importantly prevent the victory by the other players? In this variant, issuing hold or support orders is probably the absolute last thing you want to do. There are only two possible outcomes: 1) you stagnate or 2) your orders are turned into HOLD orders because your partner does something different.
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Re: Double Dip (gunboat) - AAR

Postby Shibabalo » 15 Oct 2013, 22:58

YEAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH BOIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII

I'd like to thank asudevil and EpicDim for carrying me to this victory. I did remarkably little work to get here.

The first year, I entered complete orders for both countries, and had surprisingly little conflicts. The next couple years, I only semi-entered orders, because things were starting to conflict. Then I just stopped entering anything whatsoever for a while, and let Germany and Turkey cruise.

But then I had to step in; I saw the Italian move to Tyrolia and I was guessing that Germany was going to let the Italians take Munich. Right I was! Over the last couple years, I had to enter various orders to stop Germany and Turkey from being hoes, and then this past turn I overrid the order to make Rumania move to Sevastopol.


A very fun game! Thanks for GMing, connect4!
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Re: Double Dip (gunboat) - AAR

Postby asudevil » 16 Oct 2013, 02:52

Actually I wasn't going to have Italy take MUN...that was the OTHER Italy doing that.
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Re: Double Dip (gunboat) - AAR

Postby Alupi » 21 Oct 2013, 17:55

Yes I overruled Italy to move to Munich.
I should have done it fall 1902, but then everything is easier after the game :)

Russia was attacked by England, Turkey and Germany and already in 1901 there was little to do.

For Italy I tried to build fleet in Naples in 1901 where order did not match.
Then I ordered override build fleet in Naples in 1902 and that did not come through either.

I though double dip (gunboat) would be easiest to make same moves for Italy and Russia and then it turned out differently.
Fun game to play though there was little success on the board :)
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