1741: War of the Austrian Succession 2.0

7player variant with standard Diplomacy rules, devised and GMd by VaeVictus. Winner: Ottoman Empire (Pharaoh of nerds)
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Re: 1741: War of the Austrian Succession 2.0

Postby Pharaoh of nerds » 20 Jul 2013, 15:02

VaeVictus wrote:On another, more trivial note, which of these icons do you prefer? The detailed or the color coded only? The 1st Rate Fleet or the 3rd Rate Fleet? The standard or the bronze cannon?

1741-Unit Comparisons 1.png


1741-Unit Comparisons 2.png


1741-Unit Comparisons 3.png


I like the 1st rate better
Between the two I like the color-coded better, but I perhaps it would be best to color-code the sails and have the hull be wood-brown for all of them.
Definitely color-coded
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Re: 1741: War of the Austrian Succession 2.0

Postby EuropeDomination » 20 Jul 2013, 19:31

Keep Britain and France at 4 SCs please.
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Re: 1741: War of the Austrian Succession 2.0

Postby EuropeDomination » 20 Jul 2013, 19:34

Britain actually got exceedingly Lucky with its 4 BUilds, should only get 2 in normal circumstances.
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Re: 1741: War of the Austrian Succession 2.0

Postby glacier777 » 21 Jul 2013, 18:38

I agree with the changes around Brussels. It weakens Britain in that region which strengthens Austria, Prussia and Russia which I think was necessary.

I am concerned that France looks very strong now. I think you should make GoL touch Val (can't see the map anymore, that's the Spanish SC, right?) That also gives that Spanish fleet more options. Atm, he is only real option is supporting the British into Morocco at the expense of the Turk. If he supports the Ottoman then they are bound to raise F Alg (I would have done) and annoy him.
Maybe you consider merging the Central Med and Ionian. That means Spain and Turkey can attack each other more readily.

Shibabalo wrote:First off, let me say that I really really like this variant.

Second off, there is one change I would like to see made in particular: the joining on Courland and Moscow. (And the separation of St. Pete and Lithuania.)

Here's why: As I was considering openings as Russia, it seems to me like I had three major options: one, move Moscow up to make a play for Norway; two, move to Don Voisko and make a play for Crimea, or three, move to Ukraine and support myself into Galicia, which I did.

I couldn't see a real anti-Prussian option, besides moving St. Pete to Courland, but I wasn't going to do that because that gives up Sweden, a guaranteed build. So, with Courland and Moscow combined, Russia can move Moscow to Courland, and Kiev to Lithuania, which increases tension between Prussia and Russia, strengthening Austria in turn.

Also agree.
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Re: 1741: War of the Austrian Succession 2.0

Postby VaeVictis » 22 Jul 2013, 08:17

Thanks everyone for your thoughtful and insightful comments. They have been most helpful since it is very hard to stay outside of one's self and not favor one's own work. Your analysis has hopefully led me back onto an objective path of proper, balance oriented scrutiny.

The main sticking points seemed to be western North Africa, France's power, and Britain's power with other concerns as well.

North Africa: I resisted altering North Africa ever since it was first mentioned by Stanislaw at the beginning of development, but in hindsight of the test game and all the comments it seemed proper to tinker with a solution. I made Algiers into a neutral SC Algeria and added Tripolitania as a neutral SC. This will give more room for opening moves between Spain, F Gibraltar, and the Ottoman Empire. Ionian and central Med have also been combined to make early contact between Spain and the Ottoman Empire easier and more feasible. Thanks to Fingon888, EuropeDomination, glacier777, and originally Stanislaw for your comments on this point.

France: France seemed to have too many units for her own good. France could easily capture most, if not all, her adjoining neutral SC's while still having enough units to cause severe mischief for any one of her neighbors. I have reduced France to three home centers because of her compact nature and relative lack of neighboring threats first turn. Strasbourg has been made a non-SC, Lorraine, and Burgundy has been folded into Marseilles. Lorraine still contains an army supplied from Paris to give France some diplomatic heft in Germany and the power to cause trouble early or gain a German center. I tip my hat to glacier777 and Pharaoh of nerds for touching on France's overpowered nature.

La Rochelle replaces Nantes as a SC.

Bay of Biscay has also been extended to touch Portugal, giving F La Rochelle the option to go to Flanders or Portugal, with the help of Britain, first turn.

Britain: Since Britain secured four builds in the test game it seemed fitting to reduce their options early in the game (I realize that securing four builds was likely a fluke, but it still seemed too likely to happen). Rather than reducing Britain's SC count like France, I chose to make her opportunities for neutral SC's scarcer. I decided against reducing Britain's SC count because of the spread out nature of her military with initial setup. Gibraltar is a must for historical interest (not that this is all important, it's not, but I do like to honor it as much as possible) and for strategic and diplomatic reasons in the game. Hanover similarly reflects the importance of the Hanoverian army to Britain's land forces by acting as a supply center for future builds. Therefore, the logical option was to make opening moves more treacherous for Britain. I caused Saxony to border Hanover allowing an aggressive Prussian opening to severely threaten Hanover and a British build in Denmark and causing tension between Britain and Prussian in general. Morocco is no longer an SC and Britain has little chance of securing Algeria compared to Spain or the Ottoman Empire. An aggressive French opening of La Rochelle-English Channel and Lorraine-Flanders could threaten Britain itself and bounce a British move from North Sea to Netherlands.

Austria: Brussels has been made into a neutral SC Flanders. This will remove the awkward Austrian presence that will always lead to a Franco/Anglo-Austrian war; Austria has no chance of holding Brussels should France decide it is within her best interests to capture it. It is outlined in Austrian Maroon to reflect the loose control exerted by the Austrian Monarchy for historical accuracy (this is my way of winking to all you history buffs out there showing that I realize it was Austrian). On another level it is even more accurate this way since Austrian troops were not even garrisoned in the Low Countries due to a stipulation of the Treaty of Rastatt in which Austria maintained nominal control over the former Spanish Netherlands, but did not have troops stationed there. In reality, the United Provinces (Netherlands) maintained the frontier forts and garrisoned the country against future French invasions.

Ottoman Empire: Wallachia, Moldavia, and Crimea are all outlined in Ottoman lavender, but are not Ottoman SC's. This reflects the nominal control of the Ottomans over these regions and their de facto independence by the 18th century.

Russia: Moscow has been caused to border Livonia to allow for an aggressive Russian opening against Prussia (excellent suggestion Shibabalo). A special rule has been added stating that Crimea will become a Russian build center should it be captured and held to the fall build by the Russian player. This will give Russia a build center in the south and access to the Mediterranean, hopefully giving incentive for Russia and the Ottoman Empire to attack one another.
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Re: 1741: War of the Austrian Succession 2.0

Postby VaeVictis » 22 Jul 2013, 08:18

OP now with amended map including changes and new icons (bronze cannon Army and 1st Rate Fleet) . Apologies to site admin for the previous oversized map!
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Re: 1741: War of the Austrian Succession 2.0

Postby glacier777 » 22 Jul 2013, 15:42

I like nearly all the changes.

The changes to Russia and Africa are excellent.

I feel like there are too many SC's in the centre:
-Spain captures the Papal States and Austria gets Venice
- It's reasonable to expect that Prussia sends 2 armies east and Austria sends 1 east so Austria gets Bavaria and Prussia gets Saxony.
- The only way all the others are captured is if Britain and France throw A Han, F Roc, F Lon, A Mar and A Lor at the centre and peacefully divide the centres.

I really liked Austria starting with a unit in Belgium but I understand the awkward situation with France. I don't know, but that part of the map around Pal still doesn't seem exactly right, I can't think what would make it better though.

Not much help, I know!
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Re: 1741: War of the Austrian Succession 2.0

Postby VaeVictis » 23 Jul 2013, 11:05

This map is driving me crazy! It will ruin my life if I can't pin down a decent solution to balance it!

I didn't like the changes I made to France and Austria, so I reshuffled the map again. I'm not going to explain any of my thoughts lest they bias you unduly. Simply examine and comment on the first things that come to mind.

OP and map have been amended, again.
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Re: 1741: War of the Austrian Succession 2.0

Postby Shibabalo » 23 Jul 2013, 21:24

Don't worry Vae; Rome wasn't built in a day. This map keeps looking better and better.

I can't think of any other changes right now, but something may come to me later.
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Re: 1741: War of the Austrian Succession 2.0

Postby Stanislaw » 24 Jul 2013, 20:21

I think it looks pretty good. The nations with more access to neutral SCs also have more opposition in getting them so I think this works.
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