Number of messages exchanged visible to all

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Number of messages exchanged visible to all

Postby Ekphrasis » 06 Oct 2020, 21:09

In a face-to-face game, you know who is talking to whom, how frequently, and for how long. When Russia and Turkey keep stepping out into the hall or the side room, over and over again, you know it's not just because they're exchanging their recipes for biscuits.

On playdip, you never have any indication of this kind of communication. None of us ever know what is being said during a tete-a-tete, and that's good, but we don't even know when people are talking, or how often, or for how long.

This removes an *essential* component of the live game from the web simulation.

An easy fix would be to post a list (maybe in Public Press) of messages exchanged, timestamped, with the sender and recipient identified. If there were a way to do a character count on the messages too, that would be ideal, though probably more difficult technically.

If offered as an option during game creation, I can't imagine this suggestion would harm the online experience in any way, and would probably significantly enhance it. At the very least, it would allow the virtual version to more closely approximate the essential nature of the original game.
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Re: Number of messages exchanged visible to all

Postby V » 06 Oct 2020, 21:19

This wouldn’t be a game creation option I’d select, or want. There are benefits to online play. This is one of them :D
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Re: Number of messages exchanged visible to all

Postby ColonelApricot » 06 Oct 2020, 21:52

Gutted. Not a single biscuit recipe EVER.

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Re: Number of messages exchanged visible to all

Postby Ekphrasis » 06 Oct 2020, 23:12

V wrote:This wouldn’t be a game creation option I’d select, or want. There are benefits to online play. This is one of them :D


Well, it would also help to indicate in advance who might NMR, like when your buddy playing Italy passes out on the couch in a home game, and everyone knows whom to swoop down on for free centers.

At the very least, I'd like a simulation that attempted to capture as many of the elements as possible of what it is trying to simulate. Having this as an option would do that, and if just an option, I can't see why it would be objectionable.
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Re: Number of messages exchanged visible to all

Postby V » 06 Oct 2020, 23:41

Ekphrasis wrote:
V wrote:This wouldn’t be a game creation option I’d select, or want. There are benefits to online play. This is one of them :D


Well, it would also help to indicate in advance who might NMR, like when your buddy playing Italy passes out on the couch in a home game, and everyone knows whom to swoop down on for free centers.

At the very least, I'd like a simulation that attempted to capture as many of the elements as possible of what it is trying to simulate. Having this as an option would do that, and if just an option, I can't see why it would be objectionable.


As a game creation option I can’t imagine an “objection”, but still undesirable.
Your example of an anticipated NMR is another problem, not a benefit. WebDip has as a game creation option (ability to see if orders have been entered) & skilful observation can give massive undeserved advantage.

I also don’t agree that the attempt to “simulate” should necessarily be replication of a board game situation.
I’m sure diplomats leading up to WW1 did not know who was talking to who, when, & at what length.
Having played Diplomacy since 1970 I’m familiar with “paying attention” to the discussion of rivals during F2F games, but that is an unavoidable artefact of it being a board game. Not a good feature.
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Re: Number of messages exchanged visible to all

Postby Audacia » 07 Oct 2020, 00:49

Wow, the anxiety of not knowing who is talking to whom is part of the fun. Isn't it? Is it just me, or is the board quiet? The question you are just dying to ask, but won't since in the asking it tips information to others that you are out of favor.
Last edited by Audacia on 09 Oct 2020, 18:17, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Number of messages exchanged visible to all

Postby Augustvs » 08 Oct 2020, 14:40

I will say this, in face to face situations even if you think two people are deciding to attack you or not you dont get to ponder on it for hours/days, in an online game of diplomacy, orders, retreats, builds etc take hours or days. That is too long of a time-frame to WONDER what any of that could mean.I would rather not get anxious/nervous about seeing Austria sending 10 messages to Russia while sending only one to me as Turkey and think what it could mean.

Online diplomacy is a different beast and I like it this way, I would rather try to see if their writing style has changed, if they are short, trying to appease a lot and so on and make a judgement call on that. Also I don't know how much of a hassle/safe it would be to make those public in a game for the site itself as well.
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Re: Number of messages exchanged visible to all

Postby Ekphrasis » 22 Oct 2020, 17:03

If the coding would be too challenging to add as a game option, it wouldn't be worth trying without overwhelming interest.

And while I understand the website simulation is a different animal, the point of the simulation is to actually *simulate* the experience of playing the game. If England and France are spending hours figuring out their collaborative moves, if you're playing a face-to-face game, you will definitely notice them spending a lot of time out in the hall. But in a PlayDip game, there isn't a way to even *possibly* know if they've spoken once, never, or frequently. That is a significant component of the original game that there isn't even an option to simulate in this web version.

Of the integral aspects of the original that this site does not even attempt to simulate, the two most important seem to be (1) video conference communications, and (2) awareness of other players communicating. The first would be exceedingly difficult to establish and take lots of money, so it's clearly impractical. The second, though, could (presumably) be pretty easy to incorporate. If so, why object to the option?
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Re: Number of messages exchanged visible to all

Postby VGhost » 22 Oct 2020, 23:09

I don't see significant value in this. A simple number of posts isn't going to tell you if they're talking careful plans, just kicking back and forth one sentence at a time, or merely exchanging insults.

Furthermore, while the game was certainly designed to be played face to face, in point of fact the number of games played online almost certainly makes that the most popular way to play by a couple orders of magnitude (even if we separate online from post play) and I don't know of any other platform that implements this.
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Re: Number of messages exchanged visible to all

Postby Augustvs » 23 Oct 2020, 00:28

Also on that note, I would like to add, most tabletop games that turn into digital or webased change accessibility or game mechanics to a degree to be viable on those platforms. It is not suppose to be 100% simulation of the real thing.
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