Rating Shield

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Rating Shield

Postby Pete the Great » 15 Feb 2019, 19:31

If I understand this correctly, you only get a new shield by starting a new game, which then can be used to protect you when taking over an abandoned position in another game. Once used it is lost until another new game is started. It would seem that if you wanted people to take over abandoned positions more frequently, you would allow the shield to reset at the conclusion of a shielded game, as these games will likely be much shorter than a game that you start from day 1. I took over an abandoned position on my first day on the site as I wanted to play and the game I joined had not, and did not, fill until a day later. I am almost wiped out of the first abandoned position and took over a 2nd abandoned position (shielded), which also will not likely last long. Therefore if both of those abandonments end soon, I will be back to 1 game that I personally started and have no shield for use in another abandoned position.
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Re: Rating Shield

Postby marotta » 15 Feb 2019, 20:05

Ratings shield's are useful only if you can win the game and increase your rating. If finishing a game where I used a rating shield gets me another one, I could take over a country only to move out of every supply center if a win is not possible, finish the game quickly and therefore get another rating shield. I'm not sure why you might think it is better incentive to have people taking over positions just to abandon them if/when the going gets tough.

There is currently enough incentive to take over an abandoned position that there are very few of them. If you want to give additional incentive, offer a single rating point if you can last at least 5 years.
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Re: Rating Shield

Postby super_dipsy » 15 Feb 2019, 20:37

The rating shield is there to encourage people to take up surrendered positions. If it were not there, people might be reluctant to pick up a ranked game surrendered position because of the potential rating loss. However, in the old days when you got a bonus for every surrendered position you picked up which cancelled any loss, some players would 'game' the system by only ever playing surrendered positions, thereby not risking anything and sweeping up the odd potential result. So that is why the restriction was introduced in the new system, ie on having to start a ranked game to charge your shield. This means that for every freebie, you have to risk your rating in an unprotected one.

If your shield went back to being charged after your shielded game is done, the worry I would have is that you would then be back to being able to play endless surrendered positions without ever risking a negative change to your rating. I'm not sure how popular that would be?
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Re: Rating Shield

Postby OldBaldGuy » 15 Feb 2019, 23:52

I pick up many surrendered positions, and it has hurt my rating. I do it because it good for the game.

I think every picked up game should have a rating shield.
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Re: Rating Shield

Postby eldubby » 16 Feb 2019, 06:00

Dipsy is right. I would have no problem just picking up games left and right regardless of out come if there were no hit to my ratings.
Ultimately you have to decide if you are playing the game for the rating and your rank vs playing the game for the challenge of taking a weak position and trying to do something with it.

Best way to keep your shield up would be go one for one. play a new game then pick up a surrender then start another new game rinse and repeat.

The goal should be reducing the number of surrenders so there are not so many out there to choose from.
Even if we penalized someone for abandoning.. lets say you only get a certain % of the total points you would have earned for a game. So for me my 1.37% surrender rate Means I would lose 1.37% of the points I would have gained when I get points for a win/draw. 2 problems with this out side the code time is
1. I would complain stating that those 2 surrenders I had were the first month I was here and after I lost my last SC and did not know I had to stay. my game was over in my mind so I surrendered because I had lost. not because I was losing and had no chance or gave up or real life happened. So then someone would have to research every players surrender or.. reset all surrenders to zero and start from scratch.

#2 and its more the reality.. out side of real life happening, the surrenders that because well they got Stabbed and its easier to quit....they dont care about the rating, they want play to win and when they feel they cant they just quit and strt another game.
The only way to avoid them would be to create games with pass words and invite only those that you trust wont quit when they are losing.

Maybe instead of earning rating shields faster incentivise games you pick up with out a rating shield to be a higher score then % of turns taken. As long as its more than 50% you would get 75% or double it. More risk more reward?
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Re: Rating Shield

Postby marotta » 16 Feb 2019, 06:45

Obviously no matter how you handle trying to incentivizing picking up abandoned positions, you will warp how people play. How do you want people to play abandoned positions? You want them to play as hard as possible to keep themselves in the game. But you don't want to warp the ratings by rewarding them with ratings points.

How about rewarding them by extending their paid subscription? You can reward it with whatever pace you want. e.g. for every 10 turns taken on a game you picked up that was abandoned your subscription is extended by a single day. That would pay them 0.68 cents a move. ($25 / 365 / 10) Then, if you wanted, you could simply say that picking up an abandoned position does not effect your rating positive or negative. No gaming the ratings, just getting paid to keep games moving and try your hardest to stay in the game.

Alternately, I have been suggesting that there be a computer interface developed for the site. I would love to be able to hook a developed AI Bot to games on the site. Especially for gunboat games, the computer could just take over the game. Heck, a computer might be even more communicative in a non-gunboat game that some opponents!
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Re: Rating Shield

Postby condude1 » 16 Feb 2019, 23:52

marotta wrote:Obviously no matter how you handle trying to incentivizing picking up abandoned positions, you will warp how people play. How do you want people to play abandoned positions? You want them to play as hard as possible to keep themselves in the game. But you don't want to warp the ratings by rewarding them with ratings points.

How about rewarding them by extending their paid subscription? You can reward it with whatever pace you want. e.g. for every 10 turns taken on a game you picked up that was abandoned your subscription is extended by a single day. That would pay them 0.68 cents a move. ($25 / 365 / 10) Then, if you wanted, you could simply say that picking up an abandoned position does not effect your rating positive or negative. No gaming the ratings, just getting paid to keep games moving and try your hardest to stay in the game.


This is a fun idea that might actually incentivize people to get premium memberships! It's a balanced way of encouraging people to pick up surrendered positions, and one that shouldn't cost much at all.
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Re: Rating Shield

Postby Pete the Great » 26 Feb 2019, 13:17

Thank you for all the feedback. I was under the incorrect perception that abandoned positions was a larger problem then it actually is. I am, by the way, still slugging it out in my second abandoned pick up as a 1 center power (vassal state). I was even back in one of my home centers briefly before being recalled to the front lines. The discussion on tactics are definitely helping to get rid off 30 years of Diplomacy rust. :)
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Re: Rating Shield

Postby jay65536 » 26 Feb 2019, 15:34

If you are afraid of people endlessly taking over abandoned positions and "freerolling" their rating, why not just make it so that if you take over an abandoned position without a "charged" rating shield, your rating stays fixed regardless of the result?
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Re: Rating Shield

Postby super_dipsy » 26 Feb 2019, 18:18

jay65536 wrote:If you are afraid of people endlessly taking over abandoned positions and "freerolling" their rating, why not just make it so that if you take over an abandoned position without a "charged" rating shield, your rating stays fixed regardless of the result?

That is an interesting thought Jay. On first glance I thought it would be a really smart move. However, that might actually introduce a different problem. For the games where your rating is guaranteed to stay unchanged, you are essentially playing an unranked game. Would that affect your play? It seems it might do, since you don't care (from a ratings point of view at least) what happens.
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