Proposed - Timing Out Stalemates

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Proposed - Timing Out Stalemates

Postby AardvarkArmy » 23 Sep 2018, 02:05

So, I'm in a game in which a stalemate has been reached - 1 player stuck at 16, two smaller players holding 18

While there have been a few pointless moves in the backfields, no one has gained a center or ANY new territory for 2 full years.

One player is simply being stubborn and refusing to accept the reality of a 3-way draw.

This scenario could persist for... days? weeks? months?

It seems to me that trying to bore your opponent into losing interest and hoping to win via an NMR is an exceptionally sleazy path to victory. It has absolutely zero basis in a player's skill, strategy, tactics, negotiating prowess...

It seems to me there should be a "timing out" feature - if no player gains any new centers for, say, 3 full years, the game ends in a DIAS
SOLOS
ICE&FIRE.1-Martell/EXCALIBUR.1-Angles/EXCALIBUR.2-Scots/EMERALD-Sno/MOD.4-Italy/SENGOKU.1-OdaNobu/S.AMERICA.1-Peru

DRAWS
1930-China/BattleIsleA-Winterfell/S&S-Turkey/WORLD INFL-Venezuela/LECRAE-Dublin/WWIV.2-Cali/IMPERIAL1861.1-Trky/YNGSTWN.1-Grmny/AMERICAS.2-Mex/AFRICAN.2-S.Arabia
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Re: Proposed - Timing Out Stalemates

Postby Fatmo » 23 Sep 2018, 02:20

There’s a deadlocked games procedure. It’s on this thread.

viewtopic.php?f=659&t=48796#p817373

If your game meets these qualifications, report it. This is why we have this feature.

Good luck.
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Re: Proposed - Timing Out Stalemates

Postby AardvarkArmy » 23 Sep 2018, 03:17

Fatmo wrote:There’s a deadlocked games procedure. It’s on this thread.

viewtopic.php?f=659&t=48796#p817373

If your game meets these qualifications, report it. This is why we have this feature.

Good luck.


Awesome - this is EXACTLY right for our scenario. Thanks!
SOLOS
ICE&FIRE.1-Martell/EXCALIBUR.1-Angles/EXCALIBUR.2-Scots/EMERALD-Sno/MOD.4-Italy/SENGOKU.1-OdaNobu/S.AMERICA.1-Peru

DRAWS
1930-China/BattleIsleA-Winterfell/S&S-Turkey/WORLD INFL-Venezuela/LECRAE-Dublin/WWIV.2-Cali/IMPERIAL1861.1-Trky/YNGSTWN.1-Grmny/AMERICAS.2-Mex/AFRICAN.2-S.Arabia
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Re: Proposed - Timing Out Stalemates

Postby asudevil » 23 Sep 2018, 03:19

Good suggestion...if only someone would have thought of it 3 years ago.
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Re: Proposed - Timing Out Stalemates

Postby Locutus » 23 Sep 2018, 05:24

If there is a way to make it an auto rather than "report it", it would be much easier. Not a bad suggestion if workable.
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Re: Proposed - Timing Out Stalemates

Postby condude1 » 23 Sep 2018, 08:14

There might be a way of implementing a diplomacy version of the 50 move rule in chess? Simply that if no province (sc or non-sc) has changed hands for, say, 3 years, the game automatically is adjudicated as a draw. There are very few times that would impact normal play, no?
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Re: Proposed - Timing Out Stalemates

Postby Fatmo » 23 Sep 2018, 10:20

I wouldn't really necessarily want to see this automated.

You never know if a situation will come up where there is a stalemate between a potential soloist and some alliance trying to stop the solo, but that everyone wants to let play out a bit. There should never be an automated ending for a game of Diplomacy other than a solo or a draw being accepted by all survivors.

But if at least one person is fed up with it, knowing that nothing will ever change, they can report it.

I agree with condude about this almost certainly not effecting normal play, but if everyone left in the game is fine with it, I say let it be.

I guess if I was going to suggest anything along these lines, it might be to include a little admin popup help-style message on the main game map page of a game informing people of this deadlocked games procedure. It's true that perhaps only people that follow the forums closely have any idea that the procedure exists. Maybe somewhere on the stats drop-down menu or something like that.
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Re: Proposed - Timing Out Stalemates

Postby Woolgie » 23 Sep 2018, 12:36

I think a simple ‘propose deadlock’ button next to the ‘submit draw proposal’ button would solve this. It could automatically email details to the mods instead of having a player write it manually. The button would only appear when relevant and have a tooltip box explaining briefly what it’s for and also giving a link to the full procedure.
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Re: Proposed - Timing Out Stalemates

Postby hedge trimmer » 23 Sep 2018, 12:42

Fatmo wrote:I guess if I was going to suggest anything along these lines, it might be to include a little admin popup help-style message on the main game map page of a game informing people of this deadlocked games procedure. It's true that perhaps only people that follow the forums closely have any idea that the procedure exists. Maybe somewhere on the stats drop-down menu or something like that.

I like this idea, but implementing it might still require a lot of work. Having it fully automated might be hard to do anyway:

- there has been no change in alliance structure
- there is evidence that negotiations to end the game have been seriously tried and failed (NOT APPLICABLE IN GUNBOAT GAMES).

These should probably be ignored until a mod can look at the game, unless we have an advanced AI that can do it ( :D ).

- there has been no change in SC ownership across opposing factions;
- at least 2 draw proposals including all surviving players, whether the game is set-up as a DIAS game or not, have been unsuccessful
3. There are no live draw proposals in place.

These might be easier to code.

Maybe it could be just a "Is this game stalemated?" link that would appear somewhere where it's clearly visible after the "easy" conditions have been met. Clicking it would simply link to the Deadlocked Games Procedure post mentioned above. A big button near the "Propose draw" button might work, since if someone has suggested a draw twice already, he's probably going to see it there.

EDIT: Of course, automating the mod request instead of having the person navigate the forum could be nice too. Some people might not be familiar with how the forums work after all, and how they should go about messaging a mod.
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Re: Proposed - Timing Out Stalemates

Postby duckling » 23 Sep 2018, 14:19

I agree with condude about this almost certainly not effecting normal play, but if everyone left in the game is fine with it, I say let it be.



Except if you offer an automated alternative way out of a game, it becomes much easier to aim for that as an outcome.
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