NMR (no moves received)

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NMR (no moves received)

Postby Eakane » 29 Sep 2010, 21:48

I'm wondering if there's any way players can be ranked not just on their points, but by their reliability in submitting their orders in a timely fashion. I've been on the site for only a few months, though I've been playing Dip for nearly 30 years,and even pubbed a zine in the early 80s. As I had long suspected, the internet makes for a perfect venue for the game. The only problem is I'm shocked (shocked!) by how many nmr's there are. I mean, there are people missing moves in S'01. WTF?!

I try not tot take the game too seriously, but I feel like I have an obligation not to ruin the game for 6 other people who have dedicated some time and energy into an enjoyable pastime by at least submitting orders. Even if the game is going badly, and I'm not communicating with anyone, I at least get my orders in.

In my brief time here, I've missed orders only once, and it was during my honeymoon! That's justifiable.

I'd like to be able to join games with players with high reliability ratings, or players who have reformed themselves. is there no way to institute some sort of system along these lines?
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Re: NMR (no moves received)

Postby FxFocus » 29 Sep 2010, 21:52

look under Classicists in games thread
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Re: NMR (no moves received)

Postby Andrew D » 29 Sep 2010, 21:55

FxFocus wrote:look under Classicists in games thread


Exact reason Classicists were formed, and in general you should look on the forums for passworded games, people who use the forums and bother to ask for the password are far more likely to be active and thus more reliable players.
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Re: NMR (no moves received)

Postby Captain Twig » 29 Sep 2010, 22:01

Hello there.

I'm afraid NMR's are just a fact of life you're going to have to deal with. On the internet with 7 different people, you can expect that there will be a number of them, usually from the same unreliable person, but with 7 different lives going on, I'm amazed it's as good as it is. There are however, a number of things you can do:

1) Join the Classicists, who claim they are more reliable than regular people, and they will basically accept anyone, as entry requirements are pretty low to be honest. There is of course the problem that you will get CONSTANTLY criticised/ insulted by a guy with user name echotwo, so you'll have to set him as a "foe" so you don't have to see any of his nonsensical ramblings.

2) There are a fair amount of reliable players about, I happen to know a couple. :) You can PM me and I can try finding you a few players 99% sure none of them will NMR unless the worst of occasions come up in real life.

3) It takes some time, but look up some player's stats! The stats are not at all reliable, but they can tell you the percentage of orders processed. Anything above 95% is fairly good, anything less and you can expect about 1 NMR from them during a game.

4) Lastly, advertise a game for reliable people on the Forums. It's fairly easy, and you'll tend to get above average players in reliability.
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Re: NMR (no moves received)

Postby Lucifers_Hammer » 29 Sep 2010, 22:22

NMR's are definitely a point of irritation with me. In my games, I have recorded 796 out of a possible 800 moves with the 4 NMR's coming from being unable to complete builds due to not holding home SC to build in in one game.

I have found some players simply NMR due to me putting them into a hopeless position where the writing is on the wall of their demise regardless of whether they enter orders or not. In that case, the NMR's were a result of my play plus weak players not having the heart to finish a game.

For example, Captain Twig routinely ends up NMRing due to the pounding he absorbs when he plays me ... a trend that will continue when Team Canada steamrolls Team Africa :D :mrgreen: :D :mrgreen:

All kidding aside, while NMR's are annoying they are unfortunately part of a game - as pointed out by the esteemed Captain Twig (whom I respect as a player). No one is THAT busy as they can't spend 1 minute to enter in a few mouse clicks out of respect to other players - and if you are, DON'T start a game then. There are games I am in that I will lose but still try my best to make it fair and out of respect to the players still in it - even if only to order mutual support orders to make it as difficult as possible for another player.

In answer to your query Eakane, there already exists a system - passworded games where players are invited to join. I have found these games to be on the average having a much higher quality of play. The odd time you will still find NMRing gutter sweepings (see Team Africa) sneaking their way past. :D
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Re: NMR (no moves received)

Postby Lucifers_Hammer » 29 Sep 2010, 22:55

** THUD *** ... the sound of Team Africa throwing down the gauntlet.

** SWISH *** the sound of Team Canada kicking aside said gauntlet asking "some competition first please, cannon fodder later"
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Re: NMR (no moves received)

Postby Pedros » 30 Sep 2010, 10:54

Eakane wrote: I've been playing Dip for nearly 30 years

If you've been around that long Eakane you must be eligible for the Oldies group (viewforum.php?f=18) Pretty friendly (though sumotimes grumpy!) in the group forum, but pretty deadly at the table! Why not come along and join us?
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Re: NMR (no moves received)

Postby sock » 03 Oct 2010, 03:18

I see that Eakane and I are slated to play 21856 Destruction once all the confirmations come in. He can trust that there will be no NMRs from me (nor surrenders for that matter...I always play until the last man is standing).

Good to see another oldie that I can talk to.... ;)
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Re: NMR (no moves received)

Postby rick.leeds » 04 Oct 2010, 21:05

The question was whether players could be ranked by NMRs as well as points. A possible way to do this is to remove points from players when they NMR (in the same way that surrenders -1 from ranked games) but there are times when an NMR is recorded when no orders are possible (I've also been in a position when I've been owed builds and simply not been able to build them... it happened for at least two years in a row). The other point is that there are occasions when an NMR is unavoidable/accidental, rather than players deciding not to play, and it is, IMO, harsh enough when it happens by accident without being penalised for it. So I don't see this as a viable option... it does catch the players who don't play, but it also catches the players who don't purposely NMR.

But there is already an indication of this for games where you can see who you're playing against: the stats. They're not accurate in all respects yet (although Admin are looking at correcting this, or I should say other Admin are: they won't let me loose on the tech side ;)), but the NMR rate is a decently accurate stat. This is only available to Premium members ( :?: ) but it's there.

Avoiding NMRs is a matter of principle for me... and I also believe it should be for others. But this site includes any and all and this means that we're going to get this. If a player is going to NMR, I doubt that the affect this would have on their ranking is a concern. If you don't care about the game you're in, are you going to care about the ranking you have? Penalising players may have a slight affect, but no more than that.

There are perennial debates on the scoring system - what to include, how to score games, whether to bias scoring based upon the ranking of players you're up against - it seems everyone has their own favoured system. I guess eventually a revised system may be in place, or a parallel system placed alongside the current or a modified system. One suggestion has already been made about a parallel system based upon consistency (amongst others).
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Re: NMR (no moves received)

Postby fishmo » 09 Oct 2010, 02:17

I share your surprise that someone would bother to join a game and then fail to submit moves. One could always submit moves immediately upon seeing results from the last move, then change them as diplomacy moves forward or deals get made. But I find it adds to the shock of logging on and finding out what moves everyone submitted. I've had people join games and move armies I'd supported to hold (in an effort to slow someone from gobbling them when I couldn't!).

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