Is there any way to see who we're waiting on?

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Re: Is there any way to see who we're waiting on?

Postby super_dipsy » 08 Feb 2019, 07:22

WilliamTischbein wrote: it is small wonder you have so few friends games.

Hmm. There are currently 239 active Friends games out of 527 total. My maths may not be perfect, but that looks like about 45%. Not sure how this counts as 'so few' :) . Friends games are in fact extremely popular, and frequently make up about 40% or so of active games over the last few years. Note this is nothing to do with your main point, but I don't like to let false facts slip by when they are about something I regard as important :D

WilliamTischbein wrote:We don't so much need to know who has finalized orders as much as know who has put in any orders at all. I think it should be an option in friends' games

Gosh. That goes even further than the original suggestion. If you think about what you are asking for a second, you may see it would give a lot of info you do not necessarily want to give. If you are going to show who has entered orders or not, then it seems reasonably obvious that you would have to have a way to show when a player has entered orders at the time they do so. If you see a player has already entered orders, then although it is not cast in stone you can see that potentially that player is 'done', and even more so if you also show they have finalized. You also know the player has been around since the last deadline. There is an important point here. Often in Dip one person tries to persuade someone to do something. If the other person does not want to, often a tactic is just to sit it out and never say yes or no. You can always pretend you never saw the message in time before the deadline. But as soon as a player can see you have finalized, or even entered your orders, they have a timestamp that you were 'in the game' at that point. Therefore they person offering the deal knows you must have seen the message (assuming you had not entered orders before) and since you have not responded obviously the answer is 'NO I wont do what you ask'. That takes away an important tactic (or at least lessens its value). If you have no way of knowing whether the other player has seen your message, you can never be sure whether they really did not see it or whether they never intended to do what you ask in the first place!

and of course the reasons from previous posts in the thread remain valid. I only mention this one because it had not been mentioned before and it would become even more of an issue if you could see when players had entered orders, in addition to whether they have finalized.

WilliamTischbein wrote:If nobody wants to write up the code, send me the code and I will write it up.

A kind offer, but as I said earlier in this (very old) thread, it is not a question of the difficulty of making the change, but rather of whether we want to or not.

Obviously it is sad that this is causing you such trouble, and particularly said that it may result in you and your friends giving up on the site. One thing that might have been helpful is that if you had played a 'Mentor' game then your mentor would have been explaining to everyone about finalizing. But in the end, the assumption is that if you are playing with Friends, it really isn't hard to explain to them all that you want them to check if they have finalized by the simple process of clicking the Orders tab, or even just looking at the Home Page where it will say if they need to finalize.

It does occur to me there may be one thing that we could do that might help though. We also have the Schools game class where there is a Teacher and then the players. The Teacher has various powers, including the ability to force a turn to progress. We could add the power for a teacher to see who has entered orders / finalized. Then they can chase up the players who have not understood. The advantage here is the teacher is not in the game, and therefore noone in the game can benefit or not by having access to the information. Would that help?
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Re: Is there any way to see who we're waiting on?

Postby asudevil » 08 Feb 2019, 14:10

Actually letting teachers see this...helpful in the classroom environment so that they can see if a student isn't putting in orders the way they are expected to.
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Re: Is there any way to see who we're waiting on?

Postby eldubby » 12 Feb 2019, 00:33

As an avid player (who took a few years off) I would not want other players to know that I have entered orders or if I have finalized. I hate playing the waiting game of everyone else not finalizing. But realistically if I'm Turkey an I entered orders and finalized, would that make Austria or Russia decide "oh guess he knows what he is doing and instead of emailing me to see if I want to ally or DMZ etc... instead they decide hey lets just attack the guy whos not involving us. (by involving I mean lie to them about what im about to do) Further more there is still life. Saturday was a busy day for me and I can set my PC time based on Phase end times. Knowing how long I have to wait for emails and responses. Should I be unfairly pointed out as the one holding up the game so lets attack him.
Even if the first 2years I finalized but I knew I would be busy during spring year 3 so I enter orders but don't finalize just in case some one asks for help or I change my mind about attacking you or not. If you want fast games set up live games with 15 min phase times.
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