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PostPosted: 21 Sep 2013, 04:13
by asudevil
Here is the AAR for this game.

I will start by saying my allowing SC's to be mined was a bad decision and future games should not be played with this precedence.

Also, well done Diadem for winning with 2 powers that were considered to UNDERPOWERED in VR1


PostPosted: 21 Sep 2013, 04:51
by attitudes
Congratulations to Diadem for a well played game.

Here is a list of the powers used during the game. I tried to keep track of most of them.

Code: Select all
Amoeba orders:
-- S01 -- DAM donate to ANK
-- F01 -- DAM donate to CON
-- S02 -- DAM donate to GRE
       -- ANK donate to GRE
       -- CON donate to ROM - no such unit
-- F02 -- VIE donate to BLA - illegal order
-- S03 -- TYR donate to SIB
       -- SEV donate to RUM
-- F03 -- none
-- S04 -- CON donate to VEN
-- F04 -- none
-- S05 -- ANK donate to MOS
-- F05 -- ANK donate to BUL
-- S06 -- GRE donate to DAM
          ANK donate to MIL
-- F06 -- KON donate to ANK
-- S07 -- GRE donate to ANK
-- F07 -- DAM donate to AEG
          EGY donate to CON
-- S08 -- WMS donate to EGY
-- F08 -- ADR donate to ANK - invalid - unit moved
-- S09 -- none
-- F09 -- POR donate to DAM
-- S10 -- POR donate to EGY
-- F10 -- POR donate to APU
          PAL donate to EDI

Earthquake orders:
-- S01 -- n/a
-- S02 -- CON becomes sea space
-- S03 -- SEV becomes sea space
-- S04 -- ANK becomes sea space
-- S05 -- PIE impassable
-- S06 -- FIN becomes sea space
-- S07 -- TRI becomes sea space
-- S08 -- MUN becomes sea space
-- S09 -- TYR becomes sea space
-- S10 -- ION impassable

Evil Eye orders:
-- S01 -- n/a
-- F01 -- n/a
-- S02 -- Italian  army  ALS: ALS - BUR
-- F02 -- Russian  army  SWE: SWE - FIN
-- S03 -- British  fleet NTH: NTH s SKA - NOR
-- F03 -- Russian  fleet BAR: Barents Sea hold
-- S04 -- Russian  army  STP: STP - SER -- **illegal use of EE
-- F04 -- Austrian army  BUL: BUL - MAC
-- S05 -- Italian  army  PIE: Piedmont - Milan
-- F05 -- French   fleet EMS: EMS - ION
-- S06 -- Russian  army  WAR: WAR - MOS
-- F06 -- French   army  SWI: SWI - MIL
-- S07 -- Italian  army  ROM: ROM - MIL
-- F07 -- Austrian army  VIE: VIE - BOH
-- S08 -- Turkish  fleet ION: ION - ADR
-- F08 -- Russian  army  PRU: PRU - LVN
-- S09 -- Austrian fleet TRI: TRI - ADR
-- F09 -- Russian  army  PRU: PRU - LVN
-- S10 -- Italian  fleet ANK: ANK - BLA
-- F10 -- Austrian fleet TYR: TYR - TRI

Guild orders:
-- S01 -- not used  -- credits = 1
-- F01 -- bre - lon -- credits = 1
-- S02 -- bre - edi -- credits = 0
-- F02 -- pic - wal -- credits = 0
-- S03 -- spa - egy -- credits = 0
-- F03 -- not used  -- credits = 1
-- S04 -- LVP - PAL -- credits = 2  ** invalid guild
-- F04 -- SPA - TRP (GoL fleet convoy) -- credits = 1 
-- S05 -- not used  -- credits = 2
-- F05 -- CLY - NOR
          YOR - BEL
          TRP - NAP -- credits = 0
-- S06 -- CLY - NOR -- credits = 0
-- F06 -- GAS - MOR -- credits = 1  ** invalid guild
-- S07 -- not used  -- credits = 2
-- F07 -- MAR - MOR -- credits = 1
-- S08 -- MAR - ROM -- credits = 1
-- F08 -- MAR - ROM
          MOR - NAP -- credits = 0
-- S09 -- NAP - TRP -- credits = 0
-- F09 -- not used  -- credits = 1
-- S10 -- not used  -- credits = 2
-- F10 -- APU - SER -- credits = 1

Hawkonnen orders:
-- S01 -- England Fleet GIB: GIB - MAO - destroyed
-- F01 -- Italian army  SWI: SWI - ALS
-- S02 -- Italian army  ALS: ALS - BUR
-- F02 -- Turkish army  VIE: VIE - TYR
-- S03 -- Turkish army  TYR: deferred  - destroyed
-- F03 -- Russian army  STP: STP - LIV - destroyed
-- S04 -- Turkish army  ANK: ANK hold
-- F04 -- Italian army  MIL: MIL - PIE
-- S05 -- Italian army  PIE: Piedmont support Milan hold -- overridden by Evil Eye order
-- F05 -- German  army  COL: COL - ALS
-- S06 -- Russian army  BUD: BUD - SER
-- F06 -- Russian army  SER: SER - MAC
-- S07 -- not used
-- F07 -- not used
-- S08 -- Turkish fleet ION: ION - TYS - overridden by Evil Eye
-- F08 -- Turkish fleet ADR: ADR - APU
-- S09 -- German  fleet NTH: NTH - NWG
-- F09 -- German  fleet NWG: NWG - NAO
-- S10 -- French  fleet ION: ION hold
-- F10 -- German  fleet MUN: MUN - ALS

Hyperspace orders:
-- W00 -- MOS - SWE
-- S01 -- none
-- W01 -- VIE - GRE
-- S02 -- none
-- W02 -- none
-- S03 -- CON - MOS
-- W03 -- FIN - PAR
-- S04 -- MIL - BUD
-- W04 -- DAM - TRI
-- S05 -- none
-- W05 -- none
-- S06 -- ANK - MOR
-- W06 -- ANK - MAO
-- S07 -- ADR - POR
-- W07 -- ION - SEV
-- S08 -- VEN - CLY
-- W08 -- TRP - ANK
-- S09 -- none
-- W09 -- CON - DAM
-- S10 -- BAR - BER

King orders:
-- S01 -- MIL
-- F01 -- SWI
-- S02 -- PIE
-- F02 -- ROM
-- S03 -- French army SPA
-- F03 -- VEN
-- S04 -- VEN
-- F04 -- MIL
-- S05 -- PIE
-- F05 -- MIL
-- S06 -- ROM
-- F06 -- NAP
-- S07 -- ROM
-- F07 -- MIL
-- S08 -- NAP
-- F08 -- ROM
-- S09 -- CON
-- F09 -- ANK
-- S10 -- ANK
-- F10 -- ARA

Macron orders:
-- S01 -- COL - BEL; MUN - SIL
-- F01 -- BEL hold; SIL - WAR
-- S02 -- BEL - ALS; WAR - MOS
-- F02 -- ALS - BEL; MOS support SIL - WAR
-- S03 -- BEL hold; MOS - STP
-- F03 -- BEL - BUR
-- S04 -- BEL support NET hold
-- F04 -- BEL support NET hold
-- S05 -- BEL support NET hold
-- F05 -- BEL support NET hold
-- S06 -- COL support NET hold
-- F06 -- COL support NET hold
-- S07 -- COL support NET hold
-- F07 -- COL support NTH - BEL
-- S08 -- COL support BEL hold
-- F08 -- COL support BEL hold
-- S09 -- COL support BEL hold
-- F09 -- COL support BEL hold
-- S10 -- COL support BEL hold
-- F10 -- COL support BEL hold

Thief orders:
-- S01 -- n/a
-- F01 -- n/a
-- S02 -- French fleet Spain/nc
-- F02 -- Austrian army Apulia
-- S03 -- French fleet Egypt
-- F03 -- Italian fleet Ionean Sea
-- S04 -- German army Warsaw
-- F04 -- Italian fleet Ionean Sea

Hyperspace Jokers
-- Austria -- S06 -- SER - POR
-- Britain -- S03 -- NWG - EGY
-- France  --
-- Germany --
-- Italy   --
-- Russia  -- W01 -- Barents Sea - SPA
-- Turkey  --


PostPosted: 21 Sep 2013, 04:55
by asudevil
Also, I will say that attitudes is the best 2nd eyes/real GM guys may not know this, but by the time 05 rolled around, real life was kicking my ass, and I was barely actually checking orders...I did to make sure it was ok...but he CARRIED this duo otherwise the deadlines would have been an even bigger mess than they were.

If you ever get a chance to play a game he GM's...jump on it...he is the SHIT


PostPosted: 21 Sep 2013, 06:14
by presser84
asudevil wrote:Also, I will say that attitudes is the best 2nd eyes/real GM guys may not know this, but by the time 05 rolled around, real life was kicking my ass, and I was barely actually checking orders...I did to make sure it was ok...but he CARRIED this duo otherwise the deadlines would have been an even bigger mess than they were.

If you ever get a chance to play a game he GM's...jump on it...he is the SHIT

Having played with him and in games GM'd by attitudes I can second this and tell you he is top notch!! If karma was working he would have some from me.


PostPosted: 21 Sep 2013, 13:03
by haroonriaz
First of all, regards and appreciation to both the GMs, especially attitudes. I think we would not have reached here without his hard work.

However, the Vain Rats 4 edition was bound to end up with this result with a disastrous terrorist rule interpretation of bombing the SCs. I obviously have zero respect for this tough call and was probably the only player to have a problem with what was going on, to my astonishment. I am sorry to say this, but I feel it is important to say this, for the rest of the players, just to make an academic point. I don't care about the result as much. My AAR is primarily aimed at making this point to France. What it did to England had a massive impact.

It is good to see that asudevil already conceded the mistake of allowing this interpretation, which I would reiterate is a pure error of judgment on the part of the moderators, and not a case of a varying interpretation of rule as maintained by France. France would of course carry on with his obnoxious persistence of this interpretation. But hey, perhaps I would too, if I got away with it.

But let this be a case study for interpreting the terrorist rule. And why GMs should be conservative in entertaining ambitious interpretations of such rules.

France is an excellent player, his strategy and execution were impeccable, we enjoyed great relations right till the end, I would have offered him the game myself thanks to Russia and nothing to take away from him, but he should admit that this problem played a huge part in his victory, especially the heartless elimination of England. Oh wait, he must admit if it is a problem in the first place.

I am not usually a fan of other players soloing, but I wanted France to win this for a change or perhaps nothing less than a 3 way. I am tired of seeing mediocre 4 way draws. It is not fair to all the efforts put in to the game, for both moderator and players, and not entertaining at all. I certainly dd not want a 4 way that would include Austria and such a draw would not have been satisfying for me. After the decisions from the moderators about the terrorist rule, the greatest help that France got for winning was from Russia, who according to me, is the primary responsible party for the result. I am not saying that I was not. But Russia had more problems with Turkey's growth than that of France. His decisions throughout the game were jaw dropping.

For some reason, (Russia told me it was Earthquake and Hawkonnen powers (which Austria used brilliantly well to keep himself alive)), Russia was incurably married to Austria and vice versa. So the Warsaw stab in the end by Austria, also felt good. But I am not sure if Austria was invincible. But something close to it, perhaps. Russia certainly made it look so. Italy played well too.

I knew things would be tough when the Turkey player was substituted, who was my only sincere ally in the scenario. So actually glad to have survived till the end.

It's a nice, complex variant and would love to play it again.


PostPosted: 21 Sep 2013, 20:44
by marsman57
Out of town and in my cell phone so full AAR later. I know this result was largely my fault for stabbing Turkey. I could tell he never forgave me. I definitely didn't think a 6 way draw would happen and despite medicore play on my side, I was playing for a solo until the end.


PostPosted: 21 Sep 2013, 20:45
by marsman57
P.S. I agree the terrorism call was terrible. I just decided to roll with it as I heard their minds were unchangeable.


PostPosted: 21 Sep 2013, 20:58
by attitudes
Thanks for all the kind words. I enjoyed every minute of it. It was fun. My sincere apologies to the players regarding the Terrorist decision.

I will be posting some of the questions and interpretations that asudevil and I talked about during the game for future GM's and players. Feel free to comment on them as well. Suffice it to say, some of the powers need to be re-worded for future games.

I'll start with Gibraltar - which is only applicable for 1900 variant maps and the like. We were asked about Gibraltar early on regarding a power (don't remember which one) but decided to talk about all of the powers available. Here is what we came up with:

All interpretations assume no map changes....

Guild: an army occupying GIB would prevent a Guild army from using it in its path; a fleet occupying GIB could issue a convoy order for a Guild army.

Earthquake: GIB would start off as a sea space for Earthquake purposes. It is not a supply center so it can be made impassable.

Hopper: GIB could be a destination for either a fleet or army.

Illusionist: GIB is considered either a sea space or coastal province for Illusionist purposes.

Foreign Build: cannot build in GIB

United Nations: GIB is considered a coastal province for United Nations

Neutral Builder: can build in GIB

Terrorist: can place a bomb in GIB but not in Winter 1900.[/quote]


PostPosted: 21 Sep 2013, 21:41
by marsman57
So this result is mainly the fault of my traveling. Look what Diadem accidentally sent in reply to a message telling him not to take both Egy and Por

Diadem wrote:
marsman57 wrote:It might be best for you not to take both. I'm not sure what the best course of action is tbqh

I'm not yet sure myself either. Part of it depends on how negotiations go. But why not take both?

It does weaken you a lot. But honestly if i now take 2-3 centres and ALA is going to form anyway. I may as well try to get to 18 in one fell swoop. And being duplicitous is getting harder and harder to maintain. Russia is already growing very suspicious, and Austria is already openly hostile towards me.

Edit: I only just read the message above right before posting.


PostPosted: 21 Sep 2013, 21:53
by presser84
You couldn't have stopped him anyway.

The orders were clever and you could not negate my ameobas.