AAR

[marsman57]

Going back through my messages, Morg was pretty communicative after all. I might have been mis-remembering, but then again, these messages were sent in mid-May, so I hope I get some slack on forgetting the details for 4 months and 24 pages of PMs ago.

Agree mambam was incompetent in this game.

[presser84]

please explain how in the face of certain death, choosing to help another player solo is taking my ball and running home with it.

You had ample opportunity to stop attacking me and never did.

You're unbelievable

[presser84]

Dude, presser, the reason I was so harsh in my diplomacy with you is because you were so rude to me in every message I sent you after I stabbed you. It was like you literally were unable to forgive it. If you are going to play like that, then I'm going to seem like a poor diplomat. I get a bit bristly with rudeness. Also, I will note that some of my all party messages after my stab were intentionally trying to provoke you by appealing to the spirit of the game and such to get you to realize that France legitimately was not a solo threat anymore without your assistance and that you had no reason to throw the game as a result.

rude? You messaged me and said "hey I might want to work with you if the conditions are right and you are not so strong [I had like 4 centers]" My response, I asked you if you had a proposal for me in there or if you were blowing smoke up my ass.

There is some really selective memory happening with you right now.

[presser84]

maybe you are legit offended by cuss words but here you go

so once again, is there a proposal in there or do you want to keep whisper sweet nothings to me while you fuck me up the ass?

This was what you wanted to report me to the mods about?

[presser84]

Frankly, I need a 5th power to stay in the game for various reasons. Things were working out not so well with my diplomacy with you so I chose to make that mambam by supporting him to take Ankara. If you eliminate him though, I will support you to stay in the game for quite some time.

I know it's a pretty crappy deal, but it's all I have to offer now.

This is what you were offering me in exchange for attacking France. Really endears me to want to work with you right?

[presser84]

oh and there was this that preceded all of that.

I know you're upset about my stab and we had some heated messages back and forth about the virtue of the game, etc.

I really don't have any intention of staying my current attack of you. I've piddled around at 4-6 SCs entirely too long in this game and need to try to make some decisive gains if I am going to be competitive enough to remain in it for the long haul.

That said, but for various reasons, I think making an effort to completely eliminate you might be premature. I've been analyzing the balance of power (and "powers") in this game and I think there is a lot more left to be played than meets the eye and a small Turkish state could play a decisive role in that game. There are few true stalemates in Vain Rats.

Any thoughts? If you have no interest, I understand. I'm just trying to offer something more interesting than the standard "fight for your life" over your last few SCs.

Edit: Note that in VR1 that Russia made it into the draw with one SC.

You basically said, I want to whittle you down if I can. I have no interest in working with me until I was small and near death. How am I supposed to respond to that? You consider this solid diplomacy?

[presser84]

oh and there was this beauty from Germany when I was declining following Russia's stab

If only you could, Turkey. Your Sultanate is in a state of impotence, my dear friend. You can't even threaten to throw the game away anymore.

[presser84]

or was this the one you wanted to report to the mods?

Dear Turkey

I know you have been badly treated by the alliance and especially Russia.

However, you can still have the last laugh by capturing Trieste, if you want.

My army in Tyrolia can help you move to Trieste from Adriatic if you are interested.

Let me know.


Germany

how about fuck you for changing my orders and fucking me over this turn?

[presser84]

Okay, back to the ALA, as I said I was surrounded by allies, and I actually agreed with stalin's assessment that Turkey could've hit 9 the year following my stab. If he had accomplished this, he would have dropped 3 builds right next to me. Is it truly unreasonable for me to expect that he would not have then felt comfortable enough that the ALA had succeeded and then leverage that to start an anti-Russian campaign. I know you think I am being overly generous to say you could've got to 9-10 in the next year, but just for the record, if you had managed it, and I had not stabbed you, and we were now looking at a scenario where you are at 9 and France is at 12, can you honestly say you would've have stabbed Austria or I?

Love the Austria and I part of it. You don't need to cuddle up with him anymore. The game is over.

I really hadn't planned for after the ALA. Like I said to you. I came into the game as a sub and had not planned to play it till the end. I wasn't really paying much attention to the game or my position. The previous Turkey seemed to think France was a threat, there was an ALA against France. That was what I was focusing on.

Rather than approach me diplomatically you just stabbed out of fear. I would have been limited in my army builds so an inland push didn't make much sense. I was very content to just move through the med and be the France "container." I had not even thought about my solo chances.

So, like I said, before. You had your own solo ambitions and decided that was the time to go for it. All the other stuff about me being a threat was invented by you to justify your own desires. You then treated me poorly diplomatically and underestimated me (or maybe underestimated France idk). You keep trying to transfer culpability for YOUR loss onto me but when you leave me no credible options and show that you wish to eliminate me I AM MAXING MY CONTRIBUTION by ensuring you lose and France solos.

The fact that the players in this game are incapable of figuring this out is mind boggling to me. Seriously. Can someone, maybe someone who wasn't playing in the game, come in and explain to me how what I did was illogical or against the spirit of the game?

[stalin813]

Okay, back to the ALA, as I said I was surrounded by allies, and I actually agreed with stalin's assessment that Turkey could've hit 9 the year following my stab. If he had accomplished this, he would have dropped 3 builds right next to me. Is it truly unreasonable for me to expect that he would not have then felt comfortable enough that the ALA had succeeded and then leverage that to start an anti-Russian campaign. I know you think I am being overly generous to say you could've got to 9-10 in the next year, but just for the record, if you had managed it, and I had not stabbed you, and we were now looking at a scenario where you are at 9 and France is at 12, can you honestly say you would've have stabbed Austria or I?

Love the Austria and I part of it. You don't need to cuddle up with him anymore. The game is over.

I really hadn't planned for after the ALA. Like I said to you. I came into the game as a sub and had not planned to play it till the end. I wasn't really paying much attention to the game or my position. The previous Turkey seemed to think France was a threat, there was an ALA against France. That was what I was focusing on.

Rather than approach me diplomatically you just stabbed out of fear. I would have been limited in my army builds so an inland push didn't make much sense. I was very content to just move through the med and be the France "container." I had not even thought about my solo chances.

So, like I said, before. You had your own solo ambitions and decided that was the time to go for it. All the other stuff about me being a threat was invented by you to justify your own desires. You then treated me poorly diplomatically and underestimated me (or maybe underestimated France idk). You keep trying to transfer culpability for YOUR loss onto me but when you leave me no credible options and show that you wish to eliminate me I AM MAXING MY CONTRIBUTION by ensuring you lose and France solos.

The fact that the players in this game are incapable of figuring this out is mind boggling to me. Seriously. Can someone, maybe someone who wasn't playing in the game, come in and explain to me how what I did was illogical or against the spirit of the game?

I don't think what you did was illogical. You made a threat and saw fit to follow through on it. What I was questioning, was what seemed like you contacted france and was basically like, I can't win so here's the game for you. That seems to be against the spirit of the game, because france didnt diplom for his win. Now after more reading in the AAR, that isn't the case. So i withdraw my previous objection. As for Russia/Austria cuddled up: I think we stayed allied because we realized if we attacked eachother it meant both our dooms. I had threatened to sink moscow and any other capital he controled if attacked by Ornithoper and unfortunately for Turkey, he listened to my threat and not yours. In the end, we all lost out, but thats the game.