Vain Rats Fall 02

GM: asudevil, Winner, Didadem

Vain Rats Fall 02

Postby asudevil » 07 Jun 2013, 01:00

Fall results are up

Retreats are due ASAP from Austria, but no later than 6/7 11:59pm GMT, 6:59pm EST

Builds are at the end of the post if you want to get them in early.

02Fa.gif


Austria: Stalin813
army Venice support army Milan - Rome ... resolved
army Milan - Rome ... bounce ... DISLODGED ... RETREAT NEEDED
army Budapest - Serbia ... resolved
army Serbia - Macedonia ... resolved ... UNIT DESTROYED

Britain: Morg
fleet Barents Sea - Norwegian Sea ... resolved
army Liverpool support army Norway - Edinburgh ... does not correspond
fleet North Sea convoy army Norway - Edinburgh ... does not correspond

France: Diadem
army Edinburgh hold ... resolved
army London - Yorkshire ... resolved
army Picardy - Wales ... resolved
fleet Mid-Atlantic Ocean - Egypt ... resolved
army Marseilles - Spain ... resolved
army Switzerland support army Vienna - Tyrolia ... resolved

Germany: Haroonriaz
army Alsace - Belgium ... resolved
army Cologne - Netherlands ... resolved
army Silesia - Warsaw ... bounce
army Munich hold ... resolved
fleet Denmark - Sweden ... resolved
fleet Skaggerak support fleet Denmark - Sweden ... resolved
army Moscow support army Silesia - Warsaw ... cut

Italy: Mambam14
army Rome - Milan ... resolved

Russia: Marsman57
army Siberia - Moscow ... bounce
army Ukraine - Warsaw ... bounce
fleet Bulgaria - Constantinople ... resolved
army Damascus Hold ... resolved
army Norway support army Sweden hold ... does not correspond
army Sweden - Finland ... resolved
fleet St Petersburg/nc support army Norway hold ... resolved

Turkey: Pjkon
army Vienna - Tyrolia ... resolved
army Ankara - Sevastopol ... resolved
fleet Black Sea - Rumania ... resolved

Builds
Code: Select all
Austria ...  4 SC ... 2 units ... 2 build
Britain ...  2 SC ... 3 units ... 1 disband
France  ... 10 SC ... 6 units ... 4 builds
Germany ... 10 SC ... 7 units ... 3 builds
Italy   ...  3 SC ... 1 unit  ... 2 builds
Russia  ...  4 SC ... 7 units ... 2 disbands - emergency relief in effect
Turkey  ...  5 SC ... 3 units ... 2 builds
[/quote]
Captain FANG, forum team championships WINNER
Part of the surviving nations of WW4/Haven

Unless I am in the cheater's subforum. 99% of what I say is NOT as a mod.
User avatar
asudevil
Premium Member
 
Posts: 16606
Joined: 18 Jul 2011, 02:20
Class: Star Ambassador
Standard rating: (1351)
All-game rating: (1437)
Timezone: GMT-7

Re: Vain Rats Fall 02

Postby Diadem » 07 Jun 2013, 01:52

Should the Italian Rom - Mil have succeeded? Even with King Key it's still 2v2.

I'm trying to think of ways other powers could have affected this outcome. The player with Amoeba moved all his units, so that's not it, and i can't think of any other. Are you sure this is correct? You ruled earlier that the Key rule "a unit trying unsuccessfully to move is automatically dislodged" does not apply if the unit is trying to move to where the attack came from, so that's not it either.
Draw in Diplomacy Stew 2, playing Italy
Winner Four Seasons, playing England
Draw in Layered, playing Yellow (Russia + Turkey)
Winner Shuffle, playing Turkey
Winner Vain Rats 4, playing France

... but first you must learn how to smile as you kill.
Diadem
 
Posts: 679
Joined: 17 Jan 2011, 01:18
Class: Ambassador
Standard rating: (1000)
All-game rating: (1001)
Timezone: GMT+1

Re: Vain Rats Fall 02

Postby asudevil » 07 Jun 2013, 02:00

Diadem wrote:Should the Italian Rom - Mil have succeeded? Even with King Key it's still 2v2.

I'm trying to think of ways other powers could have affected this outcome. The player with Amoeba moved all his units, so that's not it, and i can't think of any other. Are you sure this is correct? You ruled earlier that the Key rule "a unit trying unsuccessfully to move is automatically dislodged" does not apply if the unit is trying to move to where the attack came from, so that's not it either.


Actually I ruled that if two units bounced into the same place even if KEY was in play for one of them, the key unit doesn't displace.
Captain FANG, forum team championships WINNER
Part of the surviving nations of WW4/Haven

Unless I am in the cheater's subforum. 99% of what I say is NOT as a mod.
User avatar
asudevil
Premium Member
 
Posts: 16606
Joined: 18 Jul 2011, 02:20
Class: Star Ambassador
Standard rating: (1351)
All-game rating: (1437)
Timezone: GMT-7

Re: Vain Rats Fall 02

Postby asudevil » 07 Jun 2013, 02:05

Austria has chosen to disband his retreat. The builds in the OP have been edited to reflect this.

Builds are due ASAP, but no later than 6/8 1am GMT, 6/7 8pm EST

As mentioned, both attitudes and I have independently agreed that the orders are correct based on our interpretation of the rules and the powers in play. If anyone wants to make a case do it via PM to myself and attitudes (you are welcome to CC in another player if you choose), but I don't want to clutter the thread with a fight about it.

02F.gif
Captain FANG, forum team championships WINNER
Part of the surviving nations of WW4/Haven

Unless I am in the cheater's subforum. 99% of what I say is NOT as a mod.
User avatar
asudevil
Premium Member
 
Posts: 16606
Joined: 18 Jul 2011, 02:20
Class: Star Ambassador
Standard rating: (1351)
All-game rating: (1437)
Timezone: GMT-7

Re: Vain Rats Fall 02

Postby Diadem » 07 Jun 2013, 02:06

asudevil wrote:Actually I ruled that if two units bounced into the same place even if KEY was in play for one of them, the key unit doesn't the place.

No you didn't. Took me a while to look this up, but here is your quote:

asudevil wrote:
Diadem wrote:- King Key: Regarding the Key rule: What happens when two units attack each other. So say A Swi - Mar and A Mar - Swi, no other units involved, Swi is king key but does not have King power. Is my unit dislodged because it 'attempts to move'? I know we talked about this in VR3, but I really can't remember what was decided.

No key does not win the bounce
Draw in Diplomacy Stew 2, playing Italy
Winner Four Seasons, playing England
Draw in Layered, playing Yellow (Russia + Turkey)
Winner Shuffle, playing Turkey
Winner Vain Rats 4, playing France

... but first you must learn how to smile as you kill.
Diadem
 
Posts: 679
Joined: 17 Jan 2011, 01:18
Class: Ambassador
Standard rating: (1000)
All-game rating: (1001)
Timezone: GMT+1

Re: Vain Rats Fall 02

Postby asudevil » 07 Jun 2013, 02:07

Diadem wrote:
asudevil wrote:Actually I ruled that if two units bounced into the same place even if KEY was in play for one of them, the key unit doesn't the place.

No you didn't. Took me a while to look this up, but here is your quote:

asudevil wrote:
Diadem wrote:- King Key: Regarding the Key rule: What happens when two units attack each other. So say A Swi - Mar and A Mar - Swi, no other units involved, Swi is king key but does not have King power. Is my unit dislodged because it 'attempts to move'? I know we talked about this in VR3, but I really can't remember what was decided.

No key does not win the bounce


Where did you quote that at.
Captain FANG, forum team championships WINNER
Part of the surviving nations of WW4/Haven

Unless I am in the cheater's subforum. 99% of what I say is NOT as a mod.
User avatar
asudevil
Premium Member
 
Posts: 16606
Joined: 18 Jul 2011, 02:20
Class: Star Ambassador
Standard rating: (1351)
All-game rating: (1437)
Timezone: GMT-7

Re: Vain Rats Fall 02

Postby stalin813 » 07 Jun 2013, 02:15

So king key could win all self bounces?? That seems wrong
Best to get me at night (8pm to 12pm EDT)
User avatar
stalin813
 
Posts: 912
Joined: 23 Jan 2011, 10:42
Location: Georgia, USA
Class: Ambassador
Standard rating: (982)
All-game rating: (1279)
Timezone: GMT-5

Re: Vain Rats Fall 02

Postby asudevil » 07 Jun 2013, 02:19

stalin813 wrote:So king key could win all self bounces?? That seems wrong


To the best of my recollection, yes, any 1v1 bounces where they are trying to swap places.

HOWEVER, if I said something different somewhere else THIS GAME, (or depending on where I said it), I will go with that...But I don't know where Diadem quoted that from.
Captain FANG, forum team championships WINNER
Part of the surviving nations of WW4/Haven

Unless I am in the cheater's subforum. 99% of what I say is NOT as a mod.
User avatar
asudevil
Premium Member
 
Posts: 16606
Joined: 18 Jul 2011, 02:20
Class: Star Ambassador
Standard rating: (1351)
All-game rating: (1437)
Timezone: GMT-7

Re: Vain Rats Fall 02

Postby Diadem » 07 Jun 2013, 02:20

A PM from last week somewhere:

Re: [Vain Rats] Power question
Sent at: 26 May 2013, 14:31
From: asudevil
To: Diadem attitudes



I also by the way looked up what was ruled in VR3 on this, because I remembered it was discussed. Turns out it was more than just discussed, it was argued over for 4 days, and ultimate ruled that Key rule does in fact apply to mutual attacks, though many people disagreed. So your ruling here confirms with what was decided, albeit controversial, in VR3. Well I'm not really involved here, so if I'm the only one you told a contradictory interpretation, then no harm was done and you can probably reverse it. If you also told Austria this though, I feel it wouldn't be fair to go back on this now. But that's my 2 cents, and other people should speak for themselves.

Edit: For completeness, the VR3 thread where Morg ruled that Key should win mutual attacks: viewtopic.php?p=589145#p589145
Draw in Diplomacy Stew 2, playing Italy
Winner Four Seasons, playing England
Draw in Layered, playing Yellow (Russia + Turkey)
Winner Shuffle, playing Turkey
Winner Vain Rats 4, playing France

... but first you must learn how to smile as you kill.
Diadem
 
Posts: 679
Joined: 17 Jan 2011, 01:18
Class: Ambassador
Standard rating: (1000)
All-game rating: (1001)
Timezone: GMT+1

Re: Vain Rats Fall 02

Postby asudevil » 07 Jun 2013, 02:28

Diadem wrote:A PM from last week somewhere:

Re: [Vain Rats] Power question
Sent at: 26 May 2013, 14:31
From: asudevil
To: Diadem attitudes



I also by the way looked up what was ruled in VR3 on this, because I remembered it was discussed. Turns out it was more than just discussed, it was argued over for 4 days, and ultimate ruled that Key rule does in fact apply to mutual attacks, though many people disagreed. So your ruling here confirms with what was decided, albeit controversial, in VR3. Well I'm not really involved here, so if I'm the only one you told a contradictory interpretation, then no harm was done and you can probably reverse it. If you also told Austria this though, I feel it wouldn't be fair to go back on this now. But that's my 2 cents, and other people should speak for themselves.

Edit: For completeness, the VR3 thread where Morg ruled that Key should win mutual attacks: viewtopic.php?p=589145#p589145


Message me the PM in question, and if I answered it in PM, then yes, it only went to you. But since precendent agrees with VR3, its what I lean to.
Captain FANG, forum team championships WINNER
Part of the surviving nations of WW4/Haven

Unless I am in the cheater's subforum. 99% of what I say is NOT as a mod.
User avatar
asudevil
Premium Member
 
Posts: 16606
Joined: 18 Jul 2011, 02:20
Class: Star Ambassador
Standard rating: (1351)
All-game rating: (1437)
Timezone: GMT-7

Next

Return to Game 4

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests