Scoring: Is a loss a loss?

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Scoring: Is a loss a loss?

Postby NoPunIn10Did » 07 Jun 2017, 19:09

In the ratings system, are the points lost dependent upon how the game ended for the other players?

In other words, from the perspective of a single player, is a loss against a solo the same as a loss against a 3-way draw?

Likewise, is a loss in Ancient Mediterranean worth 5/7 of a loss on another map?

I know much of the ratings system is "secret sauce," so I'm not expecting super-specifics, but it is something I'm curious about.
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Re: Scoring: Is a loss a loss?

Postby asudevil » 07 Jun 2017, 19:14

Loss is a loss...to a solo or a 6way draw...doesn't matter.
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Re: Scoring: Is a loss a loss?

Postby Zosimus » 07 Jun 2017, 19:14

It doesn't matter whether you missed a two-way draw by a hair's breadth or whether you got smeared by a 4-on-1 team at the beginning that agreed to a six-way draw later.
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Re: Scoring: Is a loss a loss?

Postby super_dipsy » 07 Jun 2017, 21:20

And just to add, a Surrender scores a full loss as well, regardless of the game result.
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Re: Scoring: Is a loss a loss?

Postby Bromley86 » 08 Jun 2017, 01:04

nopunin10did wrote:Likewise, is a loss in Ancient Mediterranean worth 5/7 of a loss on another map?


Fairly sure I seen it confirmed somewhere that an AM solo is worth less than a vanilla solo.

EDIT: Here you go:
viewtopic.php?f=565&t=34913&p=602092&hilit=ancient+med#p602092
viewtopic.php?f=565&t=35683&p=620667&hilit=ancient+med#p620667
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Re: Scoring: Is a loss a loss?

Postby edmgrim » 08 Jun 2017, 01:40

super_dipsy wrote:And just to add, a Surrender scores a full loss as well, regardless of the game result.

Shouldn't surrenders suffer an "abandonment" penalty? Otherwise, besides honor and Ambassador status, what is there to prevent people from simply conceding what they see to be inevitable?
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Re: Scoring: Is a loss a loss?

Postby asudevil » 08 Jun 2017, 01:52

edmgrim wrote:
super_dipsy wrote:And just to add, a Surrender scores a full loss as well, regardless of the game result.

Shouldn't surrenders suffer an "abandonment" penalty? Otherwise, besides honor and Ambassador status, what is there to prevent people from simply conceding what they see to be inevitable?


Realistically...anyone willing to surrender doesn't normally care about their ranking/rating anyway
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Re: Scoring: Is a loss a loss?

Postby super_dipsy » 08 Jun 2017, 07:00

edmgrim wrote:
super_dipsy wrote:And just to add, a Surrender scores a full loss as well, regardless of the game result.

Shouldn't surrenders suffer an "abandonment" penalty? Otherwise, besides honor and Ambassador status, what is there to prevent people from simply conceding what they see to be inevitable?

Surrendering does have other penalties.

First off, you get a full loss as opposed to any pro rata score. So for example if you only play one turn, you get the same score as someone would who played the whole game and lost. Contrast this with the situation where you pick up a surrendered country and only play a few turns before you lose. Here, you would get the 'full loss' times the percent of turns you have played, so the loss costs much less.

Second, when you surrender it immediately kills your ratings protection in this and any other game you are playing. If you had your ratings protection shield active in some games, which protects you from any loss normally, as soon as you surrender in one game you lose the shield in all.

Third, and perhaps most importantly, when you surrender you immediately lose Ambassador status if you have it, and make it harder to get if you don't. This is the real measure - Ambassadors tend to be players who have a record of NOT surrendering, and hence give you a way to create a game with only more reliable players.
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Re: Scoring: Is a loss a loss?

Postby Mr.E » 08 Jun 2017, 08:39

Another penalty to surrendering, certainly if this is something a player does regularly, is that you might well come across someone who bothers to look at your record before a game and uses it. So, rather than treating you like a player to be taken seriously, one who's going to be around for a while, you make yourself a target.

Anyone who has a history of surrendering could well find themselves seen as fodder by neighbours. They could pressure you simply to ease you on your way, knowing that you're likely to quit if things go badly.

And when you do, this underlines your Quitter status... And the next nefarious analyst you come across does the same thing to you...

I think Asudevil's probably right. Quitters will quit. Penalties and ratings hits will mean nothing. Stopping them playing a ranked game until they've played a position in an unranked game might go some way to preventing quitting but doubtful.

Perhaps those that carry a certain percentage of surrenders, having completed a certain number of games, should simply have their accounts shut down. It's the serial quitters that need kicking off site, IMO.
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Re: Scoring: Is a loss a loss?

Postby ColonelApricot » 08 Jun 2017, 12:22

Not so much now that anon games are available to all. The quitter joins anonymous games and noone knows his dark secret. Until he surrenders anyway. Is it too soon to analyse whether the greater availability of anonymous games is increasing surrender rates?
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