AAR: 136485. Marcus Tullius II

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Re: AAR: 136485. Marcus Tullius II

Postby RedSun » 18 Mar 2018, 03:40

nanooktheeskimo wrote:2 things.

1, I attacked Germany for reasons entirely unrelated to Turkish comms.

2, me and Russia weren't yelling at each other--I feel fairly confident he can yell better than that, and I know for sure that I can ;)

Bonus 3rd: Italy has no reason to DMZ ION. If you want some security against a Lepanto, asking him to put the fleet in Tunis instead of convoying the army.


Was it Russia's comms? Pretty sure he was telling you the same stuff as me though can't recall exactly. If not what were the reasons?

Well you two were definetely not happy with each other's moves for several years.

If he intends to capture Tunis with a fleet he could just as easily move to Tyrrhenian instead of Ionian and give me a bit of air right?
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Re: AAR: 136485. Marcus Tullius II

Postby nanooktheeskimo » 18 Mar 2018, 03:49

If he moves to TYS he both completely sacrifices ION to Austria if he wants it (technically he does the same moving the fleet to Tun regardless, but ION doesn't telegraph it so badly), and a move to TYS pretty much shouts to France that he's headed West.

Yeah, me and Russia were mildly combative at the end, but we were more prodding each other than anything else. I made a gesture that direction to see what happened and foreclose any possibility of getting stabbed, he raised a stink (as he should), and I stunk right back. It was more performative than anything, at least on my end, and I suspect on his too.


My decision to stab Germany was based on her comms, France's, and Italy's. A wee bit on Russia's in that I had to make sure I could work with him, but he alone didn't sway me.
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Re: AAR: 136485. Marcus Tullius II

Postby RedSun » 18 Mar 2018, 04:36

nanooktheeskimo wrote:If he moves to TYS he both completely sacrifices ION to Austria if he wants it (technically he does the same moving the fleet to Tun regardless, but ION doesn't telegraph it so badly), and a move to TYS pretty much shouts to France that he's headed West.

Yeah, me and Russia were mildly combative at the end, but we were more prodding each other than anything else. I made a gesture that direction to see what happened and foreclose any possibility of getting stabbed, he raised a stink (as he should), and I stunk right back. It was more performative than anything, at least on my end, and I suspect on his too.


My decision to stab Germany was based on her comms, France's, and Italy's. A wee bit on Russia's in that I had to make sure I could work with him, but he alone didn't sway me.


I've never seen a game where Austria had the desire to take the Ionian Sea. Also I tend to see Tys as the safer italian opening by not indicating which way your going. If you move to the Ionian it guarantees your interested in the Balkans and eastern affairs. I suppose we just have different viewpoints on Italian gameplay.
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Re: AAR: 136485. Marcus Tullius II

Postby nanooktheeskimo » 18 Mar 2018, 04:39

I mean, I've opened to ION and gone west several times, so not really? And OK on Austria, but how many times have you seen Italy open to TYS? Seriously, I'm curious.

Like, conventional wisdom says that Italy opens to ION regardless of which direction they're going. So it's not just me saying that, and I think you'll find that most Italy's will see a request to open to TYS instead of ION as nonsensical.
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Re: AAR: 136485. Marcus Tullius II

Postby dib » 20 Apr 2018, 13:20

Sorry for the time its taken me to contribute to this.

I was Italy in the game - not my favourite country and I had just finished another bruising encounter albeit one where the result was 5 way draw again where I was Italy.

Firstly, I saw no reason to DMZ ION in 1901, I am with Nanook on this point. I didn't see it as anti-Turkish but if I had opened to TYS wouldn't I, as France, would perhaps see it as anti-French.

In the end you are moving a boat over two bits of water and it neither telegraphs nor truly conceals your moves. They could be read either way.

1901 was also marked with England non messaging.

For me this was a classicist game and i was perhaps hoping for too much as I had just been another game which I couldnt make traction with the participants So I found missing the entire 1st round of messages as within my own version of acceptable ruses but it did have me looking up the classicist rule book constitution:

"B) Reliability

A Classicist is also expected to be consistent in terms of his submission of orders and ability to respond to messages. Breaches in consistency must be fully justified if they ever occur."

My feeling was it was probably a ruse - just a disappointing one for me personally.

Ultimately ofcourse its all fair.

The triple alliance of Jugg & England never waivered from their initial objective of a 3 way - which is fair enough. So well done on that.

In ,my mind at least, I never actually stabbed France but his and Russia's play was plagued by the deadly NMR's which didn't help the feeling of "el classico".

As Turkey mentioned England could have attacked France earlier but chose to hold off for a bit so was just not doing anything for a move or two. I however, as Italy saw a threat from England to solo after the stab and virtual knockout of Germany, so navigated a boat into the Atlantic which probably did hamper England enough to not be able to solo.

I don't think I have cracked it as Italy yet and I ended up in a tussle with Turkey and Austria one with Russia. I competed with Turkey for Greece which slowed me up but the central powers never were able to be quite aggressive enough - that of-course requires trust which I think is hard to build. It was more abundant than my relationship with France but still not enough. At one stage i though Russia nearly got knocked out so did well to retrieve his position. Later on I was hoping for a split in the 3 which didn't materialise.

Well done England, Turkey and Russia.
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Re: AAR: 136485. Marcus Tullius II

Postby nanooktheeskimo » 20 Apr 2018, 13:35

Happy to hear from you, dib!

dib wrote:My feeling was it was probably a ruse - just a disappointing one for me personally.

Unfortunately not a ruse, though I wish it was. I just did not have the time to send messages during the first turn. I feel that my messaging and diplomatic work following that more than made up for my poor opening, however. As France and Germany were witnesses to, I was a heavy duty messager after the first turn, so it's not like I gunboated the whole game, it was just a first turn that could not have been handpicked for a worst time.

The triple alliance of Jugg & England never waivered from their initial objective of a 3 way - which is fair enough. So well done on that.

This alliance didn't actually come together until...I want to say 1904, maybe? Whenever I stabbed Germany for the second time. Even then, it was more of an alliance of convenience against a perceived central alliance than it was a "hey, let's run over the rest of the board and threeway it." This was no set in stone from 1901 carebear three way alliance.

As Turkey mentioned England could have attacked France earlier but chose to hold off for a bit so was just not doing anything for a move or two. I however, as Italy saw a threat from England to solo after the stab and virtual knockout of Germany, so navigated a boat into the Atlantic which probably did hamper England enough to not be able to solo.

Your boat definitely made it harder, but what stopped me from being able to solo was mainly my second stab of Germany. Once I did that, I was never going to be able to get around Iberia before you and/or Turkey could build a stalemate line, and I wasn't going to be able to get through the middle before I was stopped there. Maybe I could've gotten through to Moscow or Warsaw eventually, but it would've been exceedingly difficult to fight both Germany and Russia at the same time, and the alliance with Germany had become untenable. So yeah, I thought most of the solo talk about me was way overblown. Sure I had a lot of pieces, but I was only very briefly a threat to cross a stalemate line and that was snuffed out pretty quickly. So yeah, the opportunity just wasn't there, though I certainly tried hard to create it.



I'm still curious--how early did the Central Alliance come about? Was it in place to start the game, or did it materialize later?

I ask because the perception of a strong central alliance is a big part of why I ended up patching things up with Russia, and why delayed stabbing France. So I'm curious how early it happened, and if it was a true central alliance, or it just happened that you were all working with each other independently?
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