Four Seasons: AAR

GMd by attitudes. Winner: Diadem (England)

Re: Four Seasons: AAR

Postby diplomat42 » 20 Feb 2013, 02:51

How was it so uneven? I see no bigger balance issues than in Regular.
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Re: Four Seasons: AAR

Postby joelsdaman1 » 20 Feb 2013, 02:57

The extra move season gives a clear advantage to those far away.

One of the most important and fundamental rules of Diplomacy is that there are more SC's in the middle. That is to make some countries, like Austria and Germany, have a chance to grow bigger - but also have the risk of invasion from more areas. This also means that the Wicked Witches (England & Turkey) have an easier time defending themselves, but have a tougher time getting the 18 SC's.

In this variant, the advantages for the central powers are removed - one could go from Constantinople to Vienna in one year. That upsets the delicate balance of Diplomacy.
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Re: Four Seasons: AAR

Postby diplomat42 » 20 Feb 2013, 03:00

So then England and Turkey should do well, and Austria and Germany should die. We're 50/50 on that.
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Re: Four Seasons: AAR

Postby joelsdaman1 » 20 Feb 2013, 03:02

diplomat42 wrote:So then England and Turkey should do well, and Austria and Germany should die. We're 50/50 on that.

England should do better than Turkey. They can reach Portugal year 1. They should, by all accounts, win. And did. I bet if we played 100 more times with this variant, at least 50 England would solo. Maybe more
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Re: Four Seasons: AAR

Postby diplomat42 » 20 Feb 2013, 03:05

I highly doubt that. Them going for Portugal makes about as much sense as Kenya declaring war on the US.
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Re: Four Seasons: AAR

Postby joelsdaman1 » 20 Feb 2013, 03:15

diplomat42 wrote:I highly doubt that. Them going for Portugal makes about as much sense as Kenya declaring war on the US.

It's not that they will, it's that they could. The ability to do that and put no risk on your home centers is too great.
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Re: Four Seasons: AAR

Postby attitudes » 20 Feb 2013, 03:37

Just curious, after 49 solos in 99 games, don't you think going into the 100th game, somebody might mention to the others, "You know, England has an advantage in this game. What say we stop him this time?"

No offense to the next comment, but England won this game because Russia, in my opinion, bungled his opening and then Italy supported England to Marseilles. Russia's opening can be explained away but there was zero reason for Italy to support England to Marseilles.

England won this game because the rest of the powers failed in Diplomacy to organize against the leader. The variant may be flawed and out of balance but I do not think you should use that as an excuse for why England soloed here.
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Re: Four Seasons: AAR

Postby Kithchener » 20 Feb 2013, 03:42

For the record, there was little I could do to stop England solo, I agreed almost from the offset to peace with Italy and Austria and Russia on the condition that they attacked England; little came of it.
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Re: Four Seasons: AAR

Postby mr bump » 20 Feb 2013, 18:57

They can reach Portugal year 1

England won this game because Russia, in my opinion, bungled his opening


And they can also reach St.Peters year 1

So Russia is immediately on the defensive. The only way to prevent England would be to move Moscow North. That leaves just one army to defend the Russian heartland, bearing in mind Germany, Austria and Turkey would still have another two moves, it would have been a clear signal that Russia was up for grabs. So you have one army Warsaw and one Fleet Sevastopol. How would you make gains with just those two units?

Myself and England were in discussions over Scandinavia but could not come to an agreement. It was clear to me that England new he could take St.Peters in year one and was prepared to do so. So I decided that St.Peters was a lost cause and that with three moves I could make gains against Germany and England would help, which he did. Additionally he would have a fleet in St.Peters which could not go further and it would have been a drawn out process for him to move armies over when he could more easily move on the lowlands and France. Which is not only borne out by his subsequent moves but also the communications that I had with him.

If Russia could have made later gains in the Balkans the story would have been different, but it didn't didn't happen.

Some games I play cautious and fairly standard, others I like to try different things. So in this game I tried something different.

So;

1) If you are England do you go for St.Peters?

2) If you are Russia do you commit forces North purely to defend and being unlikely to make gains, remember if you go for Sweden St.Peters can fall and you will only have one army in Warsaw and a fleet stuck in the Black Sea area?

3) If you are Austria, Germany or Turkey and Russia goes North are you all going to leave Russia alone knowing that there are easy gains to make?


Also,
England won this game because the rest of the powers failed in Diplomacy to organize against the leader.


If you try to organize a defense what do you do when the 4 replies are;

1) "sounds good, I suppose."

2) "I am happy if 'Country A' gets off my back"

3)"Roll and over and die. We've lost. Because this setup is ridiculous, I've come to realize."

4) no reply from 'Country A'

In my case I attempted to go for St.Peters even tough it left Russia wide open. When that failed I made the suggestion to concede.
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Re: Four Seasons: AAR

Postby Diadem » 20 Feb 2013, 19:44

Just putting this thread into my egosearch. Will post in it when I have time.
Draw in Diplomacy Stew 2, playing Italy
Winner Four Seasons, playing England
Draw in Layered, playing Yellow (Russia + Turkey)
Winner Shuffle, playing Turkey
Winner Vain Rats 4, playing France

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