AAR

This game - Rivers and Seven Islands). GMd by asudevil. 3-way draw: France (haroonriaz); Italy (Diadem); Germany (presser84)
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AAR

Postby Pedros » 31 Mar 2013, 16:29

This will be brief! Basically, the course of the game in the East was determined by three huge mistakes - two of them mine. I failed to look closely enouh at the map before I started, and didn't notice the isolation of Cyprus (an appalling feature of this map - if anybody ever runs it again the sea boundary HAS to go through Cyprus!) I ordered the wrong initial builds - no fleets in the Med - and although I realised my mistake and tried to change them I was too late. That gave Diadem his entry to East Med and Cyprus, which was critical.

Even so I was able to mount a strong defence - so strong that Diadem (Italy) came asking to negotiate a way out of the impasse I ha caused him - I believe he said that my few fleets were tying up five of his. I was very willing to negotiate, but I told him from the outset that my bottom line was that he gave me Cyprus/EMed, which was meaning that I couldn't attempt anythying at all. If he was to be believed (and it appeared that he was) he never understood how important that was to me. All he was offering was Trieste, which in strategic terms gave me nothing at all. I was basically thinking that Cyprus was worth three other SCs to me.

Discussions ground to a halt, and immediately I made my second mistake - a serious misorder which let Italy into the Aegean as well. From that point my game had no chance at all of going anywhere. I expected to be eliminated quickly, but I was able to persuade Austria that if he didn't help me to survive then Italy would eat him next. But Austria made the third mistake - building not one but two fleets on the Danube. Totally pointless. The Black Sea was a dead end, and from then on Austria was two armies short on land. That proved fatal. I'm just pleased to have survived!
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Re: AAR

Postby Bob.Durf » 01 Apr 2013, 04:12

Glad to see my original allies managed to do the best, it seemed to me England and Turkey both failed in their own ways to capitalize on their massive boosts in S.Cs. Pedros especially was a loose cannon from what I remember. Good game to you all, especially Germany!
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Re: AAR

Postby presser84 » 02 Apr 2013, 01:41

quick aar

my initial assessment of my position basically was going to be run and hide in Scandinavia. Turns out that everyone was actually still pretty receptive to alliances. I think I vacillate between alliance with Austria then ultimately Italy. France, England, then France again. Just to get to where I was.

The end-game is where I want clarity. Diadem I have to think that your style of play is an act. You really cannot be this block-headed in reality. You asked me to attack Austria to alleviate pressure on you and for mutual gain. I talked about attacking France as well which you balked at later. We entered this with no division in mind. We reached 12 centers each and then you started counting centers in our division I already gained previously by attacking Austria. I was proposing how we divide the remaining eastern centers and you were counting my centers retroactively. Not to mention that at the time I could not build because of France in Ruhr.

And you say I stabbed you by holding in Boh, yet we had agreed to DMZ Tyrolia and that you would give up Vienna. How did you expect me to gain Vienna without Boh or Gal? And you refused to attack France. I get that, it was the right play for you but you kept stringing me along and flat our ignoring my questions about it and then saying you were tired of talking and that I was reneging. Honestly your style at that became very bratty as I was negotiating in good faith, while it seemed you were very disingenuous.
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Re: AAR

Postby Diadem » 02 Apr 2013, 19:49

A short AAR now, because I'm short on time. I'll post more later (and while writing this, I realize I completely forgot to do so with the previous game's AAR. So if I forget for this game as well, someone please kick me).

First, my general opinion of the game: I liked the premise of this game, combining some minor variants seeing what happens, and the first few years were fun as everybody was trying to figure out what to make of the new situation. I fear the game grew stale after a few years though, and I think this is because the variant is too static. There's basically the same number of territories as on the normal map (since all the new islands are quite remote and didn't see much action), but there's 7 more units. So the unit density is a lot higher, meaning more entrenched battle lines, and fewer opportunities for stabs. For much of the game I had every single space along my eastern border filed with units, and still some left to protect my rear against stabs. Your mileage may vary, but the game was too slow for my taste.

As for the actual game: I knew that Italy would be a very powerful force, with basically 3 extra supply centres. I've never disliked playing Italy even in the original game, so I figured it would be fun here. Looking back, I think perhaps Turkey is even stronger. Luckily for me he made some mistakes in the opening, allowing me to get past a defensive line that should have been impregnable. It was clear to me from the start that my route to a solo would be to eliminate Turkey, then push fleets into the Atlantic, and then grab whatever could be grabbed in the middle. So Austria, despite his proximity, was a very good ally for me, and I was happy that he seemed to look at things the same way.

Russia's quick collapse meant that Austria grew extremely rapidly. That was fine by me, since he was neither a target for me, nor a danger to me, in the short or middle run.

My war against Turkey was going ok, but the Turkish defences were such that I could basically never dismantle them without aid. So I needed Austria. Unfortunately Austria grew more and more reluctant to help. I'm still not sure why, and that's one of the things I'd love to hear from him in the AAR. He kept dithering with his fleets, misordered promised support, then stopped giving it completely. In the end I was, with very great reluctance, forced to attack him. This initially went well, and at this point in the game I had also managed to slip a fleet into the Atlantic (with permission from France, no less!). I knew such a fleet behind the stalemate line would be invaluable in the late game. At this point I was actually looking at the possibility of a solo. It was still a long shot, but I was really making quick progress against both Turkey and Austria, while Germany was still in shambles and France was occupied against England.

Unfortunately, France was paying attention and executed a perfectly timed stab. If he had done this one year later I would have had several more units to defend, and would have easily held him off while keeping the momentum going in the east. I would have gotten at least close to a solo then. As things were, I had to scramble fleets west to defend, causing my eastern front to collapse. Austria was heaping up the pressure and things were looking bleak for a while. I managed to make peace with France though, and after that the game was basically over. A solo was now completely out of the question, there was no way to get past France, and Germany had regained enough strength that even if I could defeat Austria I could never get past the stalemate line along Warsaw and Moscow.

So after that I was playing for a 3-way draw. That should have been a done and shut deal, since it was clear that no one could possibly hope for more than a 3-way, and me, France and Germany being the only realistic survivors. Germany did everything in his power to get excluded from the 3-way by being as unreasonable and hostile as possible, but his position was simply too good. I really looked at ways to reach a 3-way with France and Turkey, but it just wasn't possible.

I want to compliment France though on very skilful play. Germany got a compliment for recovering from a bad position, but let's not forget to that France did the same. He also took over a very poor position, and managed to make it work. His stab on me was perfectly timed, and he was flexible enough to make peace later when it was no longer in his interest to fight me. Very well done.

Turkey also played very well. He put up an amazing defence for a very long time, and I feel kind of bad about him not being included in the draw, because he deserved it.
Draw in Diplomacy Stew 2, playing Italy
Winner Four Seasons, playing England
Draw in Layered, playing Yellow (Russia + Turkey)
Winner Shuffle, playing Turkey
Winner Vain Rats 4, playing France

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Re: AAR

Postby presser84 » 02 Apr 2013, 20:04

Diadem wrote:Germany did everything in his power to get excluded from the 3-way by being as unreasonable and hostile as possible, but his position was simply too good. I really looked at ways to reach a 3-way with France and Turkey, but it just wasn't possible.



This is BEYOND laughable. I'd love you to cite some evidence.
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Re: AAR

Postby Thor » 07 Apr 2013, 20:54

I started allied with all around me. But after the neutrals where gone, I needed more lands to expand. As Germany, England and Turkey where able to help I took over Russia. After he was almost killed, I attacked Germany because he hadn't done what he said he would. In the meantime I wanted to give Russia some presence in Scandinavia to help me in the north. As to miscommunication he died. In the meantime I had to work on the biggest problem in the game, the Mediterranean. There where a lot of SC but I couldn't reach them easily. Although I could trust Italy and Turkey, I knew there trust would end If I gave one of them control of the Mediterranean. So I tried to keep the balance. This worked very long. However I needed to stab Italy, but somehow I'm never good at it, so I waited, till the stabbed me. I already made peace with Germany by then. And France finally started to communicate, I thought I would be able to create a presence in the Mediterranean. But somehow the communication with France was not good so our progress on Italy was very small. And soon he needed to fight the English. And then, I think the game was over.

Did I miss something?
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Re: AAR

Postby Diadem » 08 Apr 2013, 01:17

Why were you so afraid of me?

If you had helped me eliminate the Turks like I proposed, I think things would have gone a lot better for you. I never had any real interest in attacking you, my route to victory was always to fight myself into the Atlantic.
Draw in Diplomacy Stew 2, playing Italy
Winner Four Seasons, playing England
Draw in Layered, playing Yellow (Russia + Turkey)
Winner Shuffle, playing Turkey
Winner Vain Rats 4, playing France

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Re: AAR

Postby Thor » 08 Apr 2013, 14:15

If you where Austria, which SC you needed for a solo?
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