Deluge: AAR

Standard map variant with floods causing chaos! Created by Tim Sharrock and Stephen Agar. Brought to site by Pedros. GM: Big Bert. Winner: lankiel (Turkey)

Re: Deluge: AAR

Postby Pedros » 26 Jan 2013, 13:33

asudevil wrote:I think its interesting that Turkey has won both of the games I have played in.

I wonder if its because no one wants to go through Turkey's home SC's to get to Switzerland and he keeps a home SC for so long (Serbia as well)

I have no doubt that Turkey starts with a massive advantage because of the scheduling of floods. (The only way possibly to deal with this would be for the others to give Russia space to invade. But then, of course, Russia gets the advantage!)

Turkey's other advantage is that he can be a basically fleet-based nation from the off.

I didn't follow the early game, but certainly in Deluge 2 BigBert's mastery of the Army-Fleet rules (way above anybody else's) was the real factor. I really don't like these A/F ones - they seriously unbalance any game (there are other, less drastic, versions of A/F)

So far as transferring to main site, the big problem would be that every Winter the database which determines what can move where would have to be re-written. The victory conditions and things wouldn't be difficult. If we can cope with the really screwy vcs in 1900 we can certainly handle this!

But it's going to be a while before the next decision about anything new on main site - the Ratings change has wiped out development prospects for quite a while to come (don't get me wrong - I'm certainly not moaning about that!!)

Glad you all seem to have enjoyed it; Star Ratings going out later - this is the first time I've noticed you've finished.
"Sooner or later, one of us will stab the other. But for now we're both better off as allies" (kininvie)
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Re: Deluge: AAR

Postby Lankiel » 30 Jan 2013, 18:48

Hey, as promised, here's my belated AAR:

1. My goal was to stay alive, and only slowly move towards Switzerland, in the hopes that I could take advantage of Serbia, North Africa, Ankara as being among the last places to flood. And, as mentioned above, I could do nearly all of this with fleets.
2. I hoped for a Juggernaut, simply because Sev flooded rather early, so Russia would have a harder time stabbing me than in a regular game. A Jug would also allow me to have help taking over the Balkans. When Italy also expressed interest in striking against Austria, I felt secure in this goal. Russia was very interested, though his NMR hurt him a lot -- both physically in the game, and in credibility with me in taking things down. I used him in the end, and he was very helpful, but I wonder what would have happened had he been able to stay with it better.
3. After the IRT took down most of Austria [but note who survived to the end -- not R/I!], I had to turn on Italy, and it was much easier because he had armies in the Balkans instead of fleets. In 1904/5 Russia and I were able to destroy Italy's two armies. I think this really shows how critical it is in the South/East it is to rely much more on fleets. Austria and Italy both were hurt badly without them.

Then, it was a slow ponderous move to Switzerland. Thanks to England and Austria, I was able to make it. Without either of their help against Germany, it wouldn't have been possible.

Thanks for the fun game folks!
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Re: Deluge: AAR

Postby BigBert » 02 Feb 2013, 15:14

Good to read the AARs guys! I'm glad to see that the game received four out of five stars.

Some thoughts from the GM perspective:
I really like this variant. First of all because the idea is simply hilarious, but also because it's quite a fast and dynamic game. The one problem though is that in the end game, you will very often get into the situation as we saw here: one player (in this case Austria) can no longer win, but he does have the ability to pick the winner from the other two. What do you do? How do decide that when there is no way either player can return a favour? Likewise for England: do you take Norway? You know you won't survive even if you take it but you also know it will influence whether Germany survives. What do you do? That's probably the greatest drawback of this variant, and I have to confess I don't see a way out. Although I absolutely loved attitudes' suggestion: that would have been a really clever move.

Apart from that, I was a bit surprised by the low number of A/F moves this game. They brought me much in the last game, so I had expected them a bit more here again. Was that a deliberate decision guys, or did you just not really consider them? As Lankiel said, without the A/F rules armies are a but useless, but with them they become much more powerful. do I agree with though Pedros that maybe the next run of Deluge a different A/F ruleset should be tried; especially the ability to move two squares at once is probably too strong (I was able to take Naples in 01 last game as Turkey :D).

Is Turkey really so overpowered? I really still doubt it, though the numerical evidence does suggest it. But I would say that the greatest unbalance is England: I think his chances of winning are really slim. Russia is maybe also a bit weak (I would delay the sinking of Sev or Rum by one turn). Turkey is not bad, but do note that the quickest route to Switzerland is six spaces. That's much further than anyone else, so there's certainly some justification for the slower sinking there. And besides, in this game Turkey was only able to win thanks to the Austrian support in Fall 08.

Well, that's it for now. Congratulations Lankiel, I'm looking forward to seeing you in other forum games in the future!

Re: Excalibur. I do think I'll start another game as GM some time in February, depending on how much time my new real-life situation allows then. I'll look into Excalibur then, though I was also considering a run of 1600.
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