AAR Westeros Diplomacy

GMd by Presser84. 2-way draw: letram13 (Greyjoy) and shockj (Stark)

Re: AAR Westeros Diplomacy

Postby Blackfish » 03 Feb 2013, 13:18

shockj wrote:I never really doubted he'd push for a solo if he got the opportunity. But closer to the end, it just seemed like he could never get a build to stop the bleeding. I knew I was doing well, but I always felt so overextended that I felt like if he were able to catch a break and gain a build, make me or the Starks destroy something, and shift the momentum to his favor. But it seemed that whenever he was on the cusp of doing so, he'd unexpectedly lose a center to a rogue Tyrell or Martell unit. Just could never get ahead again.



Those years that one of my displaced armies spent running around Baratheon territories, denying builds and the like, allowed some of the pressure to be alieviated from my own lands. Of course, I couldn't get back up on top of my horse, but at lease it led to me having some sort of chance to live to the end of the game. If this game had lasted several more years, I might even have been able to rebuild my crushed kingdom. Unfortunately, all good things come to an end, and so, the draw was called. I accepted mainly becuase I wanted to start the other Westeros variant and becuase I didn't really want shockj to decide "Right, this Tyrell fellow is the one obstacle preventing the game from finishing. Off with his head!" and eliminating me.
"You must not fight too often with one enemy, or you will teach him all your art of war." - Plutarch

Game History
User avatar
Blackfish
 
Posts: 1592
Joined: 28 Oct 2012, 05:46
Class: Ambassador
All-game rating: (1000)
Timezone: GMT+10

Re: AAR Westeros Diplomacy

Postby presser84 » 04 Feb 2013, 07:57

Blackfish wrote:
shockj wrote:I never really doubted he'd push for a solo if he got the opportunity. But closer to the end, it just seemed like he could never get a build to stop the bleeding. I knew I was doing well, but I always felt so overextended that I felt like if he were able to catch a break and gain a build, make me or the Starks destroy something, and shift the momentum to his favor. But it seemed that whenever he was on the cusp of doing so, he'd unexpectedly lose a center to a rogue Tyrell or Martell unit. Just could never get ahead again.



Those years that one of my displaced armies spent running around Baratheon territories, denying builds and the like, allowed some of the pressure to be alieviated from my own lands. Of course, I couldn't get back up on top of my horse, but at lease it led to me having some sort of chance to live to the end of the game. If this game had lasted several more years, I might even have been able to rebuild my crushed kingdom. Unfortunately, all good things come to an end, and so, the draw was called. I accepted mainly becuase I wanted to start the other Westeros variant and becuase I didn't really want shockj to decide "Right, this Tyrell fellow is the one obstacle preventing the game from finishing. Off with his head!" and eliminating me.


From my end, I'd have liked to see this game end in a solo. I think it was there for one of them especially if a third player was left who could play the King maker card. However, we had played this game for some 4+ months with interruptions and many substitutions so I can understand the fatigue and desire to end the game.
Westeros Diplomacy - GM/creator
Diplomacy of Ice and Fire 2 - GM
Keirador wrote:Stop being a dickasaurus rex.
User avatar
presser84
 
Posts: 4326
Joined: 21 Dec 2010, 23:05
Location: New Jersey, USA
Class: Star Ambassador
Standard rating: (1460)
All-game rating: (1678)
Timezone: GMT-5

Re: AAR Westeros Diplomacy

Postby shockj » 04 Feb 2013, 08:18

The main reason I pushed the draw so much is because toward the end the Baratheons threw so many of their armies against their western front that it honestly threw me off guard, which is one of the reasons they were able to meet with some success around Crakenhall. Not enough to serve any real threat, in fact, I thought it was a bit of a misstep on his part. But the way that the Starks were able to walk right in to King's Landing, Storm's End, etc with literally no opposition lead me to believe that if I didn't end the game now, I would run the risk of being the one that came up short on the race to 18. I enjoyed the game so much I wasn't really in a huge hurry for it to end, but I just felt that the fruit on the vine was getting a bit too ripe for the Starks not to be tempted to pick. I felt that I had played too good of a game to come away empty handed because the Baratheons decided to play Kingmaker.

Thanks for the thoughts Blackfish and Presser.
Slay classy.

Washington wrote:Shockj has been known to go rouge on occasion
User avatar
shockj
 
Posts: 833
Joined: 10 Dec 2008, 09:13
Location: New Orleans, LA
Class: Ambassador
All-game rating: (1000)
Timezone: GMT-6

Re: AAR Westeros Diplomacy

Postby Benji » 20 Feb 2013, 08:28

Alright guys. The *cough cough* was what really got me in here. ;) Just kidding—you guys were awesome, especially Presser.

Seriously, it was a great game. I think you have written most of the book. I definitely had a bit of cock in my walk. Some of that was based on trying to roleplay, but a lot of it was because I had a commanding position and my relative newness (read: brash overconfidence) to the Diplomacy world. I was certainly overextended, especially after the turn on the Tyrells and the stubborn persistance of the Martells. letram was a constant force in the north and I clearly underestimated his navy.

presser84 wrote:However, we had played this game for some 4+ months with interruptions and many substitutions so I can understand the fatigue and desire to end the game.


While it was fun working with so many people, the constant change made it difficult to maintain contact with the game and it's players, let alone a proper alliance. It all fell apart for me with the Holidays. The jerky plays, the sweeping string of losses, and a new job sapped my interest and got me that second strike to boot me from the game. I know if I would have communicated or asked for more time, or even proposed a draw things could have turned out better, but mostly I lost the will to play.

shockj wrote:From my conversations with the rest of the board, it was slowly becoming obvious to me that what was really going on was a strong Stark/Greyjoy alliance in a "cold war" with a strong Tyrell/Baratheon alliance. Knowing this, I did my best to manipulate the rest of the "lesser powers" to aid us in our quest to gain the upperhand on the Tyrell/Baratheons. As such, crushing the Arryns quickly before they could turn against us with full Baratheon support, while also making sure that I had Naval superiority in the waters around the Westerlands would ensure that I had a platform from which to keep a muzzle on any Tyrell moves north. The Starks and I also successfully swapped Barrowtown for The Twins, which was a great sign that we would be able to trust each other going forward. This Fall turn was the beginning of setting all of that into motion.


**This was the key analysis. Looking back I wish I would have actively helped the Arryns more and set aside my own ambition—at least temporarily. shockj definately had me on the fence about wether he was a friend or foe, and I was even more confused after Lord Valiant had to leave.
shock's line to me was "turn on these new Tyrells because we are the originals and we'll take down the Starks" and it worked well enough; I was never really sure who's side he was on.

shockj wrote:Lannister botched the bounce order. The Tyrells were safely in Oldtown, which means it was protected against our forces. And I had to somehow explain to the Tyrells why I passed on a wide open stab against the Lannisters, and ended up in Blackcrown. It completely threw my entire game off. That move was going to probably be the "biggest" of the game, up to that point, and it was a missed opportunity. I do very much wonder what the game would have been like if we had executed it properly. But mistakes happen. But at that point, I didn't feel like I could trust the Lannisters, and also made the calculation that it would be more costly to me to prop the Lannisters up than it would be to make the stab now and have the Tyrells also benefit. I also needed time to lull the Tyrells back into a false sense of security if I were to attempt another big move. I was also attempting to sew seeds of discord between the Baratheons and Tyrells, and figured that would be all for not if I moved against the Tyrells too early.


I thought something was fishy there :) ... I remember stewing over this with a RL buddy, and we both agreed that while the Greyjoy's were probably being the typical traitorous louts they are famous for being, it was anyone's guess as to who they were being traitorous against. shock's diplomacy was in top form here. I knew the Lannister threat was coming and that I had to improve things with Tyrell or try to go for a two way tie with Greyjoy—that was shock's (much later) offer to me (not bad considering I had alienated most of my friends). :)

shockj wrote:305

This was really the year that won us the game, I feel. The Starks and I simultaneously broke the backs of the Arryns and Lannisters. In addition, we lost Lord Valiant Tyrell, and he was replaced by Lord Blackfish Tyrell. Once that happened, the seeds of division I had planted between the Tyrells and Baratheons sprouted into full bloom. I honestly think that was probably the biggest mistake Lord Benjen Baratheon made, was quickly turning on the Tyrells. Obviously I encouraged him to do so, but I also knew that once he did, it would be difficult to defend his sprawling territory with no allies to support him. I had also run the math and counted up centers, and realized that as long as Lord Stark and I were able to prevent Lord Baratheon from pushing into the Riverlands, while also holding the lands of Lannister, a Baratheon solo would be impossible. As such, it was just a question of holding our alliance together and executing sound strategy.


I feel like this was the real kicker for me too. Lord Valiant and I had a great roleplay gag running, I felt like our alliance was going to weather any storm and that we could trust and work with each other. After he left it got a lot harder, especially having to renegotiate terms and not really knowing if there was anyone I could trust. My strategy went to pot. Yes, I really needed that one build. Especially in the east. Or even If I would have given up on Sun Spear to reinforce NS-Pentos, I would have had better staying power in the later game. My bullying was getting the better of me,the Dornish harassment was bogging me down, and I didn't know who to trust. My house of cards was teetering on the edge. When I lost Pentos, my already slim chances at solo victory were a flat ruin and my prospects for a draw had destabilized. I basically set myself up with an all-or-nothing strategy. I wish I could have stuck around to set out for a rebound, but I was pretty burnt out on Diplomacy and a little preoccupied IRL.

I would play this again in a heartbeat if I had the time and we could keep a constant crew and pace rolling, but I know that's asking for a lot, especially from the guy who NMR'd out of the game. :D

Ok, one last time...

His Grace Benjen Baratheon, the First of His Name. King of the Andals, the Rhoynar and the First Men. Lord of the Seven Kingdoms and Protector of the Realm
OURS IS THE FURY

love Benji
Benji
 
Posts: 11
Joined: 15 Aug 2012, 01:59
Class: Diplomat
Standard rating: (975)
All-game rating: (974)
Timezone: GMT-6

Previous

Return to Game 1

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest