VAR Diplomacy

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VAR Diplomacy

Postby WarSmith » 19 Jan 2020, 17:53

So, I’m a massive football (soccer for those of you stateside) fan, following Crystal Palace F.C. almost religiously.
This year’s premier league has been overshadowed by the new technology introduced to improve the accuracy of referee decisions. The technology is called VAR (Video Assisted Referee) and it relies on remote video reviews of any match decision (or missed decision) and the panel sat at the review screens have the power to overrule things completely. The problem in this first year of it has been inconsistency in judgement calls, to put it mildly - fans are annoyed by it. Penalties are being given and refused, goals given offside for very marginal reasons and red cards issued in ways that are hard to explain to the crowd or even people watching at home, and the match referees seem as confused as anyone - the only people benefitting are the current league leaders... anyway - to my idea:
I wondered about a VAR forum game.
Basically we would run a standard game on normal map. But a VAR panel would be assigned to review decisions. And based upon their combined experience with DIP and whatever context they could review (Public Press etc) they could change any order in a phase if they deemed it worth changing. For example - they could change a move or support order if they believe the country should’ve done something else, could also alter a build, retreat etc. Ok, this sounds a bit like a type of chaos/stuff happens thing - however I’d like to introduce something not seen in real life VAR. I’d like the panel to explain their decisions! The panel would have to explain publicly why they made the changes they did, based on whatever data they used to apply the change.
My proposal is that we’d have a standard 7 players, and a three-person panel.
As well as being able to overrule and change some orders (if justified by their subjective logic, and explained publicly), they would also be able to issue a direct Red Card for a player - basically suspending them for a single turn. I’d imagine this would be used for example if someone engaged in dangerous play, or disputed the decision of the judges ;)
So who’s interested and have you got any suggestions to improve this idea???
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Re: VAR Diplomacy

Postby V » 19 Jan 2020, 18:06

I always had deep suspicions & now completely confirmed. A self confessed, passionate Palace fan. Only the second I’ve ever encountered. You will also expect me to still believe in you next time we meet in Diplomacy :D
Well it won’t be in this VAR concoction. The implementation in EPL is indescribably bad & I wish you luck in Diplomacy.
To think they had a year or more to carefully consider how to introduce VAR & still came up with this horseshit.
Just the initials VAR gets the pulse racing now. Goes to prove you can have “all the gear, no idea”.

Cheers V
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Re: VAR Diplomacy

Postby Pope Pius IX » 19 Jan 2020, 21:28

As a fan of a team outside the Premier League, I've got to say that VAR is pretty much the funniest thing that could have happened, and has been funnier, for longer, than most of the other football incidents I can think of.

Don't get me wrong - as fans (especially of Colchester United, and other similar teams) we suffer enough, and I genuinely feel sympathy for those watching a game who now can't enjoy a goal except after it's been checked.

But to hear managers and players complaining - for years - that VAR was required, to have them lay into referees for making human errors and call for VAR as if it would solve virtually all the great problems of English football, to have them ignore all of the legitimate points made against VAR...and then to hear them complaining that it's not fair - that, I find amusing. I stress I'm not talking about any particular manager here.

It's also interesting that the original post wrote of "goals given offside for very marginal reasons"...don't get me wrong, I understand the frustration and the ridiculous application of the rules, but - whisper it - marginal IS offside.

That said, if it's a non-ranked game, it sounds quite mental. I'm in. Assuming my support of a side with position of outside of the playoffs, a record of drawing against sides in the bottom four with worrying consistency, a centre-half (and captain, no less) who displays all the coordination of the Scarecrow in the Wizard of Oz, and a formation that reads like a very long number written in binary doesn't rule me out.

We had a good cup run, though...
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Re: VAR Diplomacy

Postby Iamnobody » 19 Jan 2020, 22:29

This could be interesting. I'm be down to play. As long as it's non-rank.
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Re: VAR Diplomacy

Postby V » 19 Jan 2020, 22:38

"As a fan of a team outside the Premier League, I've got to say that VAR is pretty much the funniest thing that could have happened, and has been funnier, for longer, than most of the other football incidents I can think of.

Don't get me wrong - as fans (especially of Colchester United, and other similar teams) we suffer enough, and I genuinely feel sympathy for those watching a game who now can't enjoy a goal except after it's been checked.”

“Genuinely Feel Sympathy” you heard it from a Diplomacy player, whilst chuckling in the background...

Yeah I know “the gift that keeps on giving”, lucky devil! If they don’t fix, I’ll be praying for relegation!
My old University friend is a Birmingham City fan, he has no sympathy either.
I cannot believe they could make such a dogs breakfast out of a simple implementation. It’s not bloody rocket science to provide the Referee with an assistant. We’ve had ‘em waving flags for over a hundred years. But no, screw up the game, why not? Maybe I should have knowing the track record of FIFA, EUFA, the FA. Hell, what is it with Football Administrators?
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Re: VAR Diplomacy

Postby Penelope Pitstop » 20 Jan 2020, 00:04

Put me on the panel :lol:
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Re: VAR Diplomacy

Postby WarSmith » 20 Jan 2020, 21:19

Great to see some signups.
I plan to run it as a forum game only, so no worries about ranking! I’ll just post a map every turn...
Of course this is a great way to have an off-topic rant about VAR as well as recruit for the game!
VAR was weird in our game against Man City at the weekend. We had a good penalty shout ignored, they had a handball penalty overruled but in the end it was LiVARpool celebrating again ;)
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Re: VAR Diplomacy

Postby Pope Pius IX » 20 Jan 2020, 21:48

I'm also concerned that VAR, successful or not (and, at the moment, it's not) will be exported down the leagues. Already the one cup that clubs like Colchester could get to Wembley in (League Trophy) must accept U21 sides and many sides have loan agreements/feeder club arrangements that calls into question whether that club is legitimately the original entity. Even if VAR remains the dog's dinner that it is, it will probably be extended further down the pyramid...
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Re: VAR Diplomacy

Postby V » 20 Jan 2020, 22:12

WarSmith wrote:Great to see some signups.
I plan to run it as a forum game only, so no worries about ranking! I’ll just post a map every turn...
Of course this is a great way to have an off-topic rant about VAR as well as recruit for the game!
VAR was weird in our game against Man City at the weekend. We had a good penalty shout ignored, they had a handball penalty overruled but in the end it was LiVARpool celebrating again ;)


My biggest complaint is that they have not implemented the name. Video Assistant Referee.
It’s becomes Video Referee (with on field whistle holder).
The whole justification was that Referees needed assistance & on some decisions it’s hard to argue that wasn’t true, BUT
They didn’t need replacing with big screen announcements & other bullshit.
The Referee has to remain absolutely in charge for all to see (including any errors which the crowd will duly reprimand).

A correct implementation of an ASSISTANT would be any number of hidden officials with monitors, miked up to the Referee giving input. That’s all. Just input, not making or correcting decisions, while displaying justifications for those corrections.
Just the same as Linesmen, have only ever been assistants. It’s always the Referees decision & players have to play to the whistle, not the flag.
At the moment they are clearly playing to the VAR, or at least the smart ones are, hence LiVARpool. They’re just gaming the system better than other teams.

It would have been so easy. A message in the ear. “Before you restart play with a kick off we think blue #9 might have been offside. Did you get a clear view?”
It would be discreet, no bloody big screen announcement “Checking Goal” If the Referee is unsure he uses the pitch side monitor, just like in NFL to potentially overturn the on field decision. But it’s still his decision. If he’s confident (even if wrong) he disregards the input & plays on. The importance of the Referee running the game is sacrosanct.

Oh no, instead of copying a supremely good implementation of technology providing on field assistance, used without drama for many years, the bloody EPL reinvents the wheel to discover a nice square one, especially for the 2019/20 season.

Rant over. Making something that’s inherently simple, over complicated & screwing it up is something I’ve always hated, but it never ceases.
Last edited by V on 20 Jan 2020, 23:24, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: VAR Diplomacy

Postby WarSmith » 20 Jan 2020, 23:16

I can’t understand why we had to implement it so differently than in the World Cup.
Like you say it’s got referees second guessing, and fans unsure when to celebrate.
There was a blatant red card in our game vs Arsenal - the ref saw it, but waves a yellow knowing VAR would take it to red if needed... that’s really poor.
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