2018 Live Mafia

Does what it says on the tin.

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Re: 2018 Live Mafia

Postby shadowface » 05 Mar 2018, 09:45

kimbyrle wrote:(We've completely exploded shadow's thread. This is why we need a social subforum.)

This was never a problem we had in threads until you turned up on the forum :)

Also I'm assuming you're in?
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Re: 2018 Live Mafia

Postby UpsideDownChuck » 05 Mar 2018, 10:02

Keirador wrote:Did not expect to read a Live Game thread and find a trial in absentia of Crunkus. It's not in good taste, but it's already happening, so I feel compelled to testify.

I think most here know I've been around here for a good bit. I've watched this community in various shapes of growth, development, decline and renaissance for eight years. I think it no exaggeration to claim that this community is what it is because of Crunkus. If you like it here or think this place is special, be aware that it would not exist without the effort put in and standards promoted by Crunkus. Not "players like Crunkus," Crunkus. I don't mean to say everybody else is rubbish, just that without the consistent determination that Crunkus applied to improving this community, year in and year out for almost a decade, it wouldn't exist.

The most unfair bullshit Crunkus had to put up with was an unending torrent of accusations that he was a bully or a troll who only cared about being right, only cared about himself, and didn't respect other people. To this I would offer two, related, counter-arguments. First, scan through the pages of game threads and see just how many of them were GMed by Crunkus. Second, click on any one of them and ISO the GM posts. I could recommend a few, Night Vale being my obvious personal favorite, but I feel fairly comfortable saying "any one of them." We had no better GM than Crunkus. Innovative game design, careful and conscientious execution, and dramatic narrative flair were things Crunkus routinely brought to the forum, and he put in a staggering amount of effort in order to create fun and enjoyable games for other people. This work was "appreciated," but not so much so that when he took some time off from GMing to actually play a game, he wasn't constantly accused of acting selfishly and in bad faith.

Seriously, if you take nothing else out of this post, ISO Crunkus' GMing/narration of Night Vale, and come back here and tell me he's an abrasive jerk. Or a selfish troll. Or anything other than a goddamned delight and a national treasure. It's your loss you never got to play a Crunkus game.

Of course, it was never his GMing that people hated him for, that gift was always accepted, usually with a modicum of courtesy. That just never carried over into influencing how much people despised him as a player. People hated Crunkus for acting like he was sooooo smart, without ever really stopping to ask if he wasn't acting like the smartest person in the room, he simply was the smartest person in the room. He suffered plenty of petty abuse on that score. But when I got into trouble with Crunkus, it was because he was holding me to very high standards. He held everybody, including himself, to very high standards. That's why this community has high standards. Crunkus wasn't a jerk, he was an optimist. He was convinced people could get and be better with enough time, patience, and honesty about past mistakes. Usually, Crunkus was right: he was right to point out where I'd failed because I really could have done better, and stubbornness or laziness or pique or high dudgeon were preventing me from doing better. He didn't just act like he was right, he was right. Surely that counts, when assessing somebody's alleged arrogance? Surely it counts that his "walls of text" that people found so bothersome, his endless pedantic parsing of phrasing and intent that so enraged people, actually had excellent rates of catching scum?

Now to be clear, I'm sure the man himself would disavow most of my praise, and indeed refer to some of it as misrepresentative to the point of being offensive, and, despite my intent, throwing up yet more barriers to his being understood. It's true, even as a self-described fan we ultimately never saw eye to eye. The game finally came when Crunkus was annoyed with play from me that he considered sub-par, and even after serious reflection I couldn't agree that he was right and I could have done better. We did discuss this privately, as Crunkus is ALWAYS wont to do when he feels there has been a misunderstanding, but he didn't convince me I could actually have done any better, and I couldn't convince him to accept lower standards. I'm saddened by his departure, but I also wonder if it wasn't inevitable that somebody who always pushed for the highest standards wouldn't eventually be disappointed. That relentlessly aspirational personality trait that so many people found intolerable was the self-same thing that elevated this community.

Apologies, if you're reading, to Crunkus, as I'm sure I got everything quite wrong. ;)


I agree with most/all of this and was a big Crunkus fan. I was sad when he left and for a bit it made me want to leave too although ultimately I needed my mafia fix too badly.
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Re: 2018 Live Mafia

Postby shadowface » 05 Mar 2018, 10:22

sinnybee wrote:Interested.
shadowface wrote:Approximately 15 minute day phases and 10 minute night phases (I'm estimating, based on my experience in Face to Face mafia)

If you have suggestions for how this could be done better, especially from the people who used to play Live Mafia on this site, please let me know :)

We usually played vanilla with shorter phases, more like 10 minute day phases and 5 minute night phases (playing multiple games per day while there were enough players), but of course 15 min day and 10 min night is better suited if there are specific game rules going on.
I like cupid and lovers roles :)

Okay, thanks! I wasn't sure about that. I think it would depend on, like you said, whether there are roles.

One thing I would love to try at some point is insane role madness. Have a list of as many different roles as we could think of and then choose randomly off that list for each player. Probably you're looking at a bit more processing time for the night phases, and you definitely can't count on balance like you'd normally want in a forum game, but this is usually hilarious fun IRL.
Otherwise if you wanted to go for a faster and purer game, I think plain vanilla, or vanilla with a doc, would be ideal.
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Re: 2018 Live Mafia

Postby kimpossible » 05 Mar 2018, 13:25

shadowface wrote:
kimbyrle wrote:(We've completely exploded shadow's thread. This is why we need a social subforum.)

This was never a problem we had in threads until you turned up on the forum :)

Ohhhh, I doubt that, Ms. Flesh Gif.

Also I'm assuming you're in?

Yeah, I'll give it a shot. All the usual timing caveats applying and whatnot.
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Re: 2018 Live Mafia

Postby kimpossible » 05 Mar 2018, 13:53

(Sorry for my part of it if people are upset about previous discussion.)

@Parabellum: (Wait, how have I only just now taught your name to my phone?) If you're going to the trouble of blending the ranch with jalapeños anyway, why not skip the ranch and make an aioli with mayo, jalapeño, garlic and onion powders, and lemon juice? All the flavor, none of the "Why did I give my money to someone who makes ranch dressing?"
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Re: 2018 Live Mafia

Postby StarWatcher009 » 05 Mar 2018, 15:59

Registering my interest, if that's allowed
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Re: 2018 Live Mafia

Postby shadowface » 05 Mar 2018, 16:12

StarWatcher009 wrote:Registering my interest, if that's allowed

Yep! I'll let you know when we get a game running.

You're GMT, right?
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Re: 2018 Live Mafia

Postby Parabellum » 05 Mar 2018, 16:53

kimbyrle wrote:(Sorry for my part of it if people are upset about previous discussion.)

@Parabellum: (Wait, how have I only just now taught your name to my phone?) If you're going to the trouble of blending the ranch with jalapeños anyway, why not skip the ranch and make an aioli with mayo, jalapeño, garlic and onion powders, and lemon juice? All the flavor, none of the "Why did I give my money to someone who makes ranch dressing?"


:) I’ll have to try that sometime. To be honest, I have a sentimental attachment to jalapeno ranch, too. I used to bartend/manage a family-owned sports bar where we made our own jalapeno ranch from scratch. That family was really good to me, I made good money, and it was the first couple of years of my marriage when we didn’t have kids yet. It was a relatively care-free, exciting time... and the reason jalapeno ranch is forever an icon of that time is that people would literally drive into town (it’s a rural area) just to buy our jalapeno ranch. It was kind of our signature.

/sentimental reminiscing over.
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Re: 2018 Live Mafia

Postby sjg11 » 05 Mar 2018, 17:28

Keirador wrote:Did not expect to read a Live Game thread and find a trial in absentia of Crunkus. It's not in good taste, but it's already happening, so I feel compelled to testify.

I think most here know I've been around here for a good bit. I've watched this community in various shapes of growth, development, decline and renaissance for eight years. I think it no exaggeration to claim that this community is what it is because of Crunkus. If you like it here or think this place is special, be aware that it would not exist without the effort put in and standards promoted by Crunkus. Not "players like Crunkus," Crunkus. I don't mean to say everybody else is rubbish, just that without the consistent determination that Crunkus applied to improving this community, year in and year out for almost a decade, it wouldn't exist.

The most unfair bullshit Crunkus had to put up with was an unending torrent of accusations that he was a bully or a troll who only cared about being right, only cared about himself, and didn't respect other people. To this I would offer two, related, counter-arguments. First, scan through the pages of game threads and see just how many of them were GMed by Crunkus. Second, click on any one of them and ISO the GM posts. I could recommend a few, Night Vale being my obvious personal favorite, but I feel fairly comfortable saying "any one of them." We had no better GM than Crunkus. Innovative game design, careful and conscientious execution, and dramatic narrative flair were things Crunkus routinely brought to the forum, and he put in a staggering amount of effort in order to create fun and enjoyable games for other people. This work was "appreciated," but not so much so that when he took some time off from GMing to actually play a game, he wasn't constantly accused of acting selfishly and in bad faith.

Seriously, if you take nothing else out of this post, ISO Crunkus' GMing/narration of Night Vale, and come back here and tell me he's an abrasive jerk. Or a selfish troll. Or anything other than a goddamned delight and a national treasure. It's your loss you never got to play a Crunkus game.

Of course, it was never his GMing that people hated him for, that gift was always accepted, usually with a modicum of courtesy. That just never carried over into influencing how much people despised him as a player. People hated Crunkus for acting like he was sooooo smart, without ever really stopping to ask if he wasn't acting like the smartest person in the room, he simply was the smartest person in the room. He suffered plenty of petty abuse on that score. But when I got into trouble with Crunkus, it was because he was holding me to very high standards. He held everybody, including himself, to very high standards. That's why this community has high standards. Crunkus wasn't a jerk, he was an optimist. He was convinced people could get and be better with enough time, patience, and honesty about past mistakes. Usually, Crunkus was right: he was right to point out where I'd failed because I really could have done better, and stubbornness or laziness or pique or high dudgeon were preventing me from doing better. He didn't just act like he was right, he was right. Surely that counts, when assessing somebody's alleged arrogance? Surely it counts that his "walls of text" that people found so bothersome, his endless pedantic parsing of phrasing and intent that so enraged people, actually had excellent rates of catching scum?

Now to be clear, I'm sure the man himself would disavow most of my praise, and indeed refer to some of it as misrepresentative to the point of being offensive, and, despite my intent, throwing up yet more barriers to his being understood. It's true, even as a self-described fan we ultimately never saw eye to eye. The game finally came when Crunkus was annoyed with play from me that he considered sub-par, and even after serious reflection I couldn't agree that he was right and I could have done better. We did discuss this privately, as Crunkus is ALWAYS wont to do when he feels there has been a misunderstanding, but he didn't convince me I could actually have done any better, and I couldn't convince him to accept lower standards. I'm saddened by his departure, but I also wonder if it wasn't inevitable that somebody who always pushed for the highest standards wouldn't eventually be disappointed. That relentlessly aspirational personality trait that so many people found intolerable was the self-same thing that elevated this community.

Apologies, if you're reading, to Crunkus, as I'm sure I got everything quite wrong. ;)

I, like Chuck, agree with most of this. Having worked as a Mod alongside him for a couple of years I, in particular, agree with the focus on the role Crunkus has played in developing this community. In particular, I wouldn't be near the player I am today without Crunkus' help.

Oh, and GMT and interested in Live Games.
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Re: 2018 Live Mafia

Postby shadowface » 05 Mar 2018, 17:38

Parabellum wrote:
kimbyrle wrote:(Sorry for my part of it if people are upset about previous discussion.)

@Parabellum: (Wait, how have I only just now taught your name to my phone?) If you're going to the trouble of blending the ranch with jalapeños anyway, why not skip the ranch and make an aioli with mayo, jalapeño, garlic and onion powders, and lemon juice? All the flavor, none of the "Why did I give my money to someone who makes ranch dressing?"


:) I’ll have to try that sometime. To be honest, I have a sentimental attachment to jalapeno ranch, too. I used to bartend/manage a family-owned sports bar where we made our own jalapeno ranch from scratch. That family was really good to me, I made good money, and it was the first couple of years of my marriage when we didn’t have kids yet. It was a relatively care-free, exciting time... and the reason jalapeno ranch is forever an icon of that time is that people would literally drive into town (it’s a rural area) just to buy our jalapeno ranch. It was kind of our signature.

/sentimental reminiscing over.

That sounds awesome, Para. And here I am jealous of the fact that kim owns that many ingredients. I'm currently at the "dorm minifridge stocked with things to put on pasta" stage of life myself :lol:
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