FOC Phase One RESULTS.

2-player tournament using a modified version of the published 2-player rules. TD: rick.leeds. WINNER: thewysecat

Re: FOC Phase One RESULTS.

Postby asudevil » 23 Jan 2012, 21:18

thewysecat wrote:I have set up the last game and PMed the players

There is one other matter to agree - the 'draw' for any continuing rounds in any format. So far I have been able to rely on the draw already made and posted by Rick. It isn't appropriate for me to make the next draw as long as I am an active participant.

I would like to recruit someone to perform that function for us. If all are agreeable I could approach a moderator such as Dipsy, Pedros or Craw or anyone else everyone agrees would be appropriate to run random.org for us...views?


Well if Sinny is going to rip my heart out...I will be out shortly. I can then run the draw for the next couple rounds (or until wyse is eliminated)
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Re: FOC Phase One RESULTS.

Postby Prufrock » 24 Jan 2012, 05:48

Re: Sinnybee's proposed structure.

I'd like to at least preserve the original structure for the final (and possibly semi-finals?), but otherwise I'm happy to continue with either the original or sinnybee's proposed structure. Especially for the finals, playing both sides is important to compensate for any inherent imbalance between the strength of each side in the 2 player variant.

I also agree wholeheartedly with thewysecat's post on finalizing orders and ending games when the outcome has been decided. In my opinion, the biggest reason that the tournament is taking so long is due to players routinely not finalizing (2 days / phase = up to 10 days / year without finalizing). Finalizing quickly when possible has the potential to speed this along much more than changing the structure to eliminate a few games.
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Re: FOC Phase One RESULTS.

Postby asudevil » 24 Jan 2012, 06:11

Prufrock wrote:Re: Sinnybee's proposed structure.

I'd like to at least preserve the original structure for the final (and possibly semi-finals?), but otherwise I'm happy to continue with either the original or sinnybee's proposed structure. Especially for the finals, playing both sides is important to compensate for any inherent imbalance between the strength of each side in the 2 player variant.

I also agree wholeheartedly with thewysecat's post on finalizing orders and ending games when the outcome has been decided. In my opinion, the biggest reason that the tournament is taking so long is due to players routinely not finalizing (2 days / phase = up to 10 days / year without finalizing). Finalizing quickly when possible has the potential to speed this along much more than changing the structure to eliminate a few games.


I have been in multiple games where the other person almost NEVER finalized...especially when it started to get unbalanced...
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Re: FOC Phase One RESULTS.

Postby Maucat » 24 Jan 2012, 10:02

I always finalized quickly and I was the first to finish all the games of phase one...
I quote at 100% this:

" Finalizing quickly when possible has the potential to speed this along much more than changing the structure to eliminate a few games"

I repeat my will to preserve the original Rick's structure of the Tournament...
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Re: FOC Phase One RESULTS.

Postby Maucat » 24 Jan 2012, 17:37

I think the actual tournament's situation should be this: January 27th 2012

Phase One, Game 1: thewysecat (E/F/R) 25 SCs bt. slippydippy (A/G/T) 9 SCs.
Phase One, Game 2: Morg (A/G/T) 19 SCs bt. Yorkshireman (E/F/R) 15 SCs by concession.
Phase One, Game 3: sinnybee (A/G/T) 24 SCs bt. marshwiggle (E/F/R) 10 SCs.
Phase One, Game 4: MisticX (E/F/R) 25 SCs bt. Palin (A/G/T) 9 SCs.
Phase One, Game 5: Prufrock (E/F/R) 21 SCs bt. Bwlvych (A/G/T) 13 SCs by concession.
Phase One, Game 6: Maucat (E/F/R) 21 SCs bt. asudevil (A/G/T) 13 SCs by concession.
Phase One, Game 7: mr bump (E/F/R) 25 SCs bt. Peanut (A/G/T) 9 SCs.
Phase One, Game 8: presser84 (A/G/T) 20 SCs bt Sitting Duck (E/F/R) 14 SCs by concession.

Phase One, Game W1: thewysecat (A/G/T) 22 SCs bt. MisticX (E/F/R) 12 SCs by concession
Phase One, Game W2: Morg (E/F/R) 18 SCs bt. sinnybee (A/G/T) 16 SCS by concession
Phase One, Game W3: Prufrock (A/G/T) 18 SCs bt. presser84 (E/F/R) 15 SCs by concession.
Phase One, Game W4: Maucat (E/F/R) 19 SCs bt. mr bump (A/G/T) 14 SCs by concession.
Phase One, Game D1: slippydippy (A/G/T) 18 SCs bt. Yorkshireman (E/F/R) 16 SCs by concession.
Phase One, Game D2: Peanut (A/G/T) 17 SCs bt. marshwiggle (E/F/R) 16 SCs by concession.
Phase One, Game D3: asudevil (A/G/T) 25 SCs bt Palin (E/F/R) 9 SCs
Phase One, Game D4: Bwlvych (E/F/R) 17 SCs bt. Sitting Duck (A/G/T) 15 SCs by concession.
QUALIFIERS

Phase One, Game E1: presser84 (E/F/R) 19 SCs bt. Peanut (A/G/T) 13 SCs by concession.
Phase One, Game E2: sinnybee vs. Asudevil
Phase One, Game E3: Bwlvych (E/F/R) 18 SCs bt. MisticX (A/G/T) 16 SCs by concession.
Phase One, Game E4: slippydippy (E/F/R) 22 SCs bt Mr Bump (A/G/T) 12 SCs by concession QUALIFIERS

Game E2 has just started...
Last edited by Maucat on 27 Jan 2012, 09:54, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: FOC Phase One RESULTS.

Postby sinnybee » 25 Jan 2012, 09:08

Maucat wrote:I always finalized quickly and I was the first to finish all the games of phase one...

Good for you.
I have never been in a game long enough to be the last game holding up new games to start, not including just now, because I conceded to Morg right after I found out that the asudevil vs Palin game was over.
Up until now, there has been NO REASON for me to play faster than I have been, so please don't give me a hard time.

Now that I am forced to be stuck in the last elimination game, bad timing, because I have a 60 hour work week this week which will increase to about 65 hours for next week, and more importantly, as of yesterday I basically have no free time anymore at my tax job to be able to access this site or to hardly even have more than a 5 minute lunch. And here I am writing this when I need to be asleep...

I would really love to make this elimination game a fast one, but I don't have the time, and once again, I'm stuck with G/A/T, that's 5 for 5 and 4 for 4 in the FOC.
So no, don't expect me to take fast turns, though I don't want to hold everyone up. If you want, we can put together Phase 2 right now and all games can start except the game in which a player will play the winner of sinnybee vs asudevil.

Maucat wrote:I quote at 100% this:

" Finalizing quickly when possible has the potential to speed this along much more than changing the structure to eliminate a few games"

I disagree. A switch from 6 games to 4 (between now and the final) is the equivelent of changing the maximum length of time per turn from 48 hours to 32 hours. Now, how on earth are you going to get the slowest game per round of each phase to finalize faster? You're not. It's basically a given that there's always going to be AT LEAST one player in one of the games that isn't going to be able to take faster turns.

And how would you like to be in my situation, Maucat? You won your F/E/R games and lost your G/A/T game. How would you like to only play G/A/T in games, like me?
In the FOC tournament so far, F/E/R has been 46% more likely to win than G/A/T has (dividing F/E/R wins by G/A/T wins), and maybe even more significant than that is the fact that F/E/R victories happen (significantly?) faster than G/A/T victories in real time game length (I haven't looked at game time, though I'd hypothesize that G/A/T victories end at a much later year). So, just in case the better player may happen to be playing G/A/T, PLEASE DON'T RUSH THEM IN TAKING THEIR TURNS. Thank you!

Why am I here defending my position, trying to not be complained at? I could be spending this time trying to figure out my Spring 01 orders; as G/A/T; again. (But right now, venting>sleep>playing G/A/T.)

Maucat wrote:I repeat my will to preserve the original Rick's structure of the Tournament...

Umm... okay?
Who's contesting your will?
I didn't come on here earlier to quote slippydippys PM of "YAY" or anything like that, did I?
Nope, I just dropped the topic of my proposal when you were against it.
You're certainly more than entitled to veto my will and have us stick with Rick's original structure (though technically we're not using the "original" structure, since I wouldn't even join this tournament until Rick at least changed his "original" structure by reducing the "original" too long and too unnecessarily complicated qualification phase). However, don't expect me to bend over backwards for you and take faster turns.

Maucat wrote:Game E2 hasn't yet started...

Oh oh, maybe someone should PM sinnybee and tell her to get her act together!
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Re: FOC Phase One RESULTS.

Postby Morg » 25 Jan 2012, 12:21

Hold on now... I don't think anyone was intentionally insulting anyone. Sinnybee you have always played well and I agree that the fact that you have done so well despite drawing the black marble every time shows your skill and tenacity. It sounds like you have a lot on your plate at the moment so let me say, take care of yourself in RL, play as you can, but no matter how it turns out in this tournament in my opinion it's clear that you deserve a place near the top.

I read somewhere that the first person to finalize takes AGT and then the second person takes EFR. Is this true? Can someone verify that, because we might need to change the way we structure this in order to keep things even.

I think it is a good idea to begin phase 2 while the remaining games play themselves out. I actually think phase 2 should have been at least set up a while ago using a randomized plot of the order people qualify.

Regarding finalizing, it really depends. I've played one game that was done in a matter of days and a few that took weeks. I think finalizing helps, but it isn't everything.

Regarding the number of games played in each phase, I'll admit that personally I'm ambivalent and I'll agree to whatever most people want. Should we start an official poll? Either one up top or a post based poll in it's own thread?
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Re: FOC Phase One RESULTS.

Postby asudevil » 25 Jan 2012, 14:15

Morg wrote:
I read somewhere that the first person to finalize takes AGT and then the second person takes EFR. Is this true? Can someone verify that, because we might need to change the way we structure this in order to keep things even.


I finalized second in this one and did get EFR...but its still random. I have finalized second in the last round (against Palin) and got AGT.

I would like to finalize quicker ...but the moves are the issue, its the retreat/build that really shouldnt take more than 5 minutes to look at in a 48 hour period.

HOWEVER, rick set this up with 48 hour deadlines BECAUSE of people like sinny who have a real life and sometimes it gets hectic.

I think we should just leave it as is. And we couldnt have started my game with sinny because Palin hadnt lost to me yet, and once sinny surrendered hers.

I think the biggest issue is the part where games are going WAY longer and being played to death.

I just played Palin. I was AGT and had 20SC's with a fleet in BRE in 05. But he didnt concede and we had to play out FOUR MORE YEARS...until I could get the last 4SC's...

During those four years, he almost never finalized a build or a retreat (much less an order phase). Again, I wasnt angry, I knew he had a birth of a nephew in there, he had real life things going on. But it wasnt really the finalization as much as refusing to accept that he was beaten.

When I played AGT against Maucat, we both finalized yes, but I also realized I was down 20-14 and he was through every major stalemate line, so I conceded the game to him.

But lets be careful here. This is supposed to be a fun tournament, and I would hate for it to turn into an angry/bitter fest because we arent moving fast enough. The people in the tournament arent going anywhere, we are all super active on site, so if it takes a month for sinny and I to play our game so be it.

I also wouldnt start round 2, because again, someone is going to have to wait, and then we are back in this same boat where we are like 1 game behind because someone is waiting for a round 1 game, then you will want to start round 3, but we will be waiting for a round 2 game...so lets just wait on round 2 until round 1 is over.
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Re: FOC Phase One RESULTS.

Postby MisticX » 26 Jan 2012, 04:02

why is 18 vs 16 beat ?
i propose instead a re-match.
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Re: FOC Phase One RESULTS.

Postby thewysecat » 26 Jan 2012, 04:08

MisticX wrote:why is 18 vs 16 beat ?
i propose instead a re-match.

Because the tournament rules say so.

I won't say more beyond the fact that I think most games should end 18 v 16 especially as the level of competition increases
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