FOC Start Date and Rule Amendments

2-player tournament using a modified version of the published 2-player rules. TD: rick.leeds. WINNER: thewysecat

FOC Start Date and Rule Amendments

Postby rick.leeds » 10 Sep 2011, 18:18

First, the easy bit. I will send out Game Start information on Monday for this. I am still waiting for one confirmation but, as the player has been on-line and hasn't responded to three PMs about needing to confirm I have a reserve ready to replace him on Monday (in other words, the player has the weekend to reply).

Now, Rule changes. Quicker than I thought super_dipsy has got the 2-player variant ready for launch. initially I still didn't want to use it as the rules for this tournament were at odds with the way the variant is being planned:
1. In the variant, Italy is neutral in 1901 and it cannot be invaded. I was not going to stop players invading Italy.
2. Prior to the Adjustments phase in 1901 Italy is assigned to one side or the other. I was intending Italy to remain in CD for the game.
3. In the site variant, the assignment of the sides would be random. Where players met each other twice in the same Phase of the tournament, I was going to make sure that if Player A had played E/F/R is game one, in the second game she would play G/A/T.
4. In the site variant, Spring 1901 NMR protection is not in place. I was intending to use this.

However, there are ways around this:
1. This rule is part of the variant and I suppose there is no reason for this to be otherwise for the tournament.
2. This will be adapted in the RULES post. The player who gains control of Italy for 1902 and beyond must follow these rules:
- Italian units MUST be issued with HOLD orders for moves; they must not move, neither can they offer support.
- if an Italian unit is successfully attacked, the player controlling Italy MUST issue a destroy order for that unit. [Of course, the unit could be unordered in the Retreats phase but that would mean the phase lasted the totality of the 24 hours, which we don't want to use.]
- As with normal CD powers, either side can support an Italian unit to HOLD.
- A player ordering anything other than a HOLD order or DESTROY order for Italy will be removed from the Tournament.
- Italian units may not count as achieving the 24 SC victory criteria. Should a game end with Italian units being counted towards this criteria, the game will be declared null and void and will need to be replayed (players being assigned a different side will need to play that side). If a game ends with Italian units NOT counting towards the 24 SCs of the victor, the game result will NOT be affected.
3. Although, ideally, I would like this tournament rule in place, I don't believe it is essential in the early rounds.
4. This isn't absolutely necessary.

There are other changes that need to be mentioned:
- We no longer require multiple accounts to be created for the early stages. When we reach the semi-finals and the final, because in these matches there DOES need to be a switch in sides, these games WILL NOT use the site system so the players WILL need the two multiple accounts. This means I will set up a RULES thread for these latter stages.
- The victory criteria is counted per side, not per power. This means that, again in the earlier phases, it does not matter about having two powers surviving as part of your side to gain the 24 SCs. It WILL matter in the semi-final and final stages.
- For now, the site variant begins in 1901. It may be that the game years will be altered to start in 1914 at a later date. In this case, the rules over game length - for tournament purposes at the end of Retreats 1920 - should the game commence in 1914, it would last until the end of 1933.
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Re: FOC Start Date and Rule Amendments

Postby sinnybee » 10 Sep 2011, 20:18

rick.leeds wrote:- Italian units may not count as achieving the 24 SC victory criteria. Should a game end with Italian units being counted towards this criteria, the game will be declared null and void and will need to be replayed (players being assigned a different side will need to play that side).

What? Obviously Italian centres shouldn't count toward the 24, but the site variant as set up by super_dipsy doesn't know any better. So, if the site ends a game because a player has 24 centres, including one Italian centre, then everyone else in the tournament has to wait while the two players replay the game? :?
Even in the most narrow victory, with all Italian centres being untouched, with one player declared winner by the game with 21 centres (plus 3 Italian centres that the site thinks are theirs), while their opponent has 10 centres, then the winner still has over double the centres of their opponent, even while not including Italy.

rick.leeds wrote:[Of course, the unit could be unordered in the Retreats phase but that would mean the phase lasted the totality of the 24 hours, which we don't want to use.]

You said the tournament would consist of 48/48/48 deadlines.

rick.leeds wrote:- We no longer require multiple accounts to be created for the early stages. When we reach the semi-finals and the final, because in these matches there DOES need to be a switch in sides, these games WILL NOT use the site system so the players WILL need the two multiple accounts. This means I will set up a RULES thread for these latter stages.

I guess it's not worth trying to get dipsy to allow for more options in his set-up of the 2 player variant?
I agree that Italy should not be given to either side, as that would give a huge advantage to the winner of that 'coin toss'.
If dipsy doesn't add any country selection choices other than random, we could just surrender and restart a game if players are assigned the wrong countries, if we had to.

rick.leeds wrote:- The victory criteria is counted per side, not per power. This means that, again in the earlier phases, it does not matter about having two powers surviving as part of your side to gain the 24 SCs. It WILL matter in the semi-final and final stages.

Okay, so in early stages, you can have one power get to 18+ (which you cannot do in the semis and finals)?
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Re: FOC Start Date and Rule Amendments

Postby rick.leeds » 11 Sep 2011, 13:26

sinnybee wrote:
rick.leeds wrote:- Italian units may not count as achieving the 24 SC victory criteria. Should a game end with Italian units being counted towards this criteria, the game will be declared null and void and will need to be replayed (players being assigned a different side will need to play that side).

What? Obviously Italian centres shouldn't count toward the 24, but the site variant as set up by super_dipsy doesn't know any better. So, if the site ends a game because a player has 24 centres, including one Italian centre, then everyone else in the tournament has to wait while the two players replay the game? :?
Even in the most narrow victory, with all Italian centres being untouched, with one player declared winner by the game with 21 centres (plus 3 Italian centres that the site thinks are theirs), while their opponent has 10 centres, then the winner still has over double the centres of their opponent, even while not including Italy.

Yep, only fair way to do it, or not use the site variant. For the tournament rules to stand, Italy HAS to remain neutral. Whatever the situation, Italian SCs cannot count towards victory criteria. As I say, the only alternative is to NOT use the site variant.

rick.leeds wrote:[Of course, the unit could be unordered in the Retreats phase but that would mean the phase lasted the totality of the 24 hours, which we don't want to use.]

You said the tournament would consist of 48/48/48 deadlines.[/quote]
Yep You're right: 48 hours not 24.

rick.leeds wrote:- We no longer require multiple accounts to be created for the early stages. When we reach the semi-finals and the final, because in these matches there DOES need to be a switch in sides, these games WILL NOT use the site system so the players WILL need the two multiple accounts. This means I will set up a RULES thread for these latter stages.

I guess it's not worth trying to get dipsy to allow for more options in his set-up of the 2 player variant?
I agree that Italy should not be given to either side, as that would give a huge advantage to the winner of that 'coin toss'.
If dipsy doesn't add any country selection choices other than random, we could just surrender and restart a game if players are assigned the wrong countries, if we had to.[/quote]
Indeed we COULD do this - surrender. But how many times is that surrender going to be necessary? In another tournament I ran, players moved AGAINST re-starting a game on more than one occasion because someone hadn't correctly joined the game - you were one of them. Taught me a lesson. Having said that, Dipsy is looking at a way around this which might mean it isn't going to be necessary. Should it be possible to make this happen, players will be informed by PM on game starts.

rick.leeds wrote:- The victory criteria is counted per side, not per power. This means that, again in the earlier phases, it does not matter about having two powers surviving as part of your side to gain the 24 SCs. It WILL matter in the semi-final and final stages.

Okay, so in early stages, you can have one power get to 18+ (which you cannot do in the semis and finals)?[/quote]
Yep... but that depends upon what happens with slightly altering the site variant.
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Re: FOC Start Date and Rule Amendments

Postby connect4 » 16 Sep 2011, 17:40

rick.leeds wrote:- A player ordering anything other than a HOLD order or DESTROY order for Italy will be removed from the Tournament.


Does this include ordering Rome MOVE Moscow (especially when the other player has no units near Rome)?
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Re: FOC Start Date and Rule Amendments

Postby rick.leeds » 17 Sep 2011, 13:23

connect4 wrote:
rick.leeds wrote:- A player ordering anything other than a HOLD order or DESTROY order for Italy will be removed from the Tournament.


Does this include ordering Rome MOVE Moscow (especially when the other player has no units near Rome)?

Hmm, obviously an illegal order becomes a hold, and a unit ordered illegally can be supported in holding, so I guess that's not an issue.
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