Quick Guide: Support order.

Some questions come up a lot... look here for simple explanations of the rules.

Quick Guide: Support order.

Postby rick.leeds » 29 Jul 2011, 16:25

Simply stated, in Dip you are unlikely to be able to capture any spaces unless you have support. Each unit has a value of ONE so, unless an opponent's unit moves out of a space, your unit moving there WITHOUT support will result in a stand-off (usually called "bounce" on this site).

REMEMBER...
- If your unit could move into a space, it can support another unit in that space.
- If your unit could move into a space, it can support another unit into that space.
- If your unit can't move into a space that turn, it can't support there.
- If a space has two coasts, and your unit can move into the space, it can support another unit in that space or into that space, regardless of coast.
- If a space has two coasts, your unit can ONLY support another unit OUT FROM that space if it could could reach the moving unit's destination.
- If a space has two coasts, your unit on one coast can ONLY support another unit in or into a space it could itself move to.

Simple Support
1. If you order a unit to move it can be supported by any other unit that could also reach the space you are moving to.
eg: A(Berlin) MOVE TO Kiel; A(Munich) SUPPORT Ber-Kiel.
In this example, Berlin is now "attacking" Kiel with a force of two.
The more units you have supporting the greater the strength of the moving unit.

2. Units can be supported to MOVE (as described above) or to HOLD.
eg: A(Denmark) HOLD; A(Sweden) SUPPORT Den HOLD.

3. Remember a unit ordered to SUPPORT or CONVOY is also, effectively, holding, so you can support those units, too.
eg: A(Naples) MOVE TO Tunis; F(Ionian Sea) CONVOY Nap-Tun; F(Aegean Sea) SUPPORT ION HOLD. This works. The F(AEG) is supporting the F(ION) to hold it's space - it ISN'T supporting the A(Nap)-Tun.
eg: A(Warsaw) MOVE TO Galicia; A(Ukraine) SUPPORT War-Gal; A(Moscow) SUPPORT Ukr HOLD. This also works. The A(Mos) is supporting the A(Ukr) to hold - it ISN'T supporting the A(War)-Gal.

Support that DOESN'T work
1. Because you need to be able to move to a space to be able to support an attack by another unit into that space, if your unit can't move there, it can't support there.
For instance, an army CAN NEVER support into a sea space; a fleet CAN NEVER support into a land space other than a coastal space (eg. F(BALTIC) CAN support into Sweden, but F(Brest) CANNOT support into Paris.
As another example, a F(Finland) CANNOT support into Norway, because a fleet can't move to Norway, whereas an A(Finland) CAN support into Norway.

2. Support can NEVER be convoyed.
eg: A(Holland) MOVE TO Belgium; F(English Channel) CONVOY Lon-Bel; A(London) SUPPORT Hol-Bel. This doesn't work.

Support for spaces with two coasts
1. Support INTO the space with two coasts is ALWAYS possible if the unit giving support could move to that space.
eg: F(Barents Sea) MOVE TO St Petersburg (north coast); A(Moscow) SUPPORT BAR-StP(nc). This works - A(Mos) can move to StP.
eg: F(Barents Sea) MOVE TO St Petersburg (north coast); F(Livonia) SUPPORT BAR-StP(nc). This also works - although F(Lvn) cannot move to StP(nc) directly, it can move to StP(sc) so it can support to StP(nc)!

2. Support OUT FROM the space with two coasts is ONLY possible if the unit giving support could move to the space the moving unit is attacking.
eg: F(Spain [north coast]) MOVE TO Mid-Atlantic Ocean; F(Portugal) SUPPORT Spa(nc)-MAO. This works, because Por-MAO would work.
eg: F(Spain [north coast]) MOVE TO Mid-Atlantic Ocean; F(Brest) SUPPORT Spa(nc)-MAO. This works, because Bre-MAO would work (it doesn't matter that a unit in Brest can't reach Spain).
eg: F(Spain [north coast]) MOVE TO Mid-Atlantic Ocean; F(Gulf of Lyons) SUPPORT Spa(nc)-MAO. This DOESN'T work, because GOL can't move to MAO (it doesn't matter that it can move to Spain).

3. When supporting a unit and it involves a space with two coasts the support order MUST MATCH COMPLETELY.
This is VERY IMPORTANT. When a fleet moves to Bulgaria East Coast, you have to select that coast... so any support must ALSO select THAT coast.
When you enter that support you are given the options of BULGARIA, BULGARIA EAST COAST, BULGARIA SOUTH COAST. Selecting BULGARIA is not enough!
Equally, when you are supporting a unit at one coast to HOLD you must specify exactly which coast the unit is at.
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Re: Support order.

Postby ninjaruler » 22 Aug 2011, 16:32

So I think I got this but I just want to make sure. A fleet in northcoast Spain can NOT support an army from piedmont into marsielles right?
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Re: Support order.

Postby jaelis » 22 Aug 2011, 19:47

ninjaruler wrote:So I think I got this but I just want to make sure. A fleet in northcoast Spain can NOT support an army from piedmont into marsielles right?

Correct!
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Re: Support order.

Postby musashisamurai » 23 Aug 2011, 01:50

jaelis wrote:
ninjaruler wrote:So I think I got this but I just want to make sure. A fleet in northcoast Spain can NOT support an army from piedmont into marsielles right?

Correct!


but piedmont could support a fleet in Gascony to Spain's north coast
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Re: Support order.

Postby presser84 » 23 Aug 2011, 06:56

musashisamurai wrote:
jaelis wrote:
ninjaruler wrote:So I think I got this but I just want to make sure. A fleet in northcoast Spain can NOT support an army from piedmont into marsielles right?

Correct!


but piedmont could support a fleet in Gascony to Spain's north coast


no Piedmont is not adjacent to Spain.
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Re: Support order.

Postby bansh33 » 21 Oct 2011, 16:09

Sorry to necro this thread slightly, but I can't find an answer to this exact question anywhere I've looked. In a F2F game this would be easy to explain if there was any confusion, but given that arbitration is done behind the scenes in the online version, I want to be very sure about the validity of the orders I'm giving.

I have:

A (Spain)
F (Mid-Atl)
A (Gas)

My question is, is this a valid support and convoy order?

A (Spain) MOVE TO Brest
F (Mid-Atl) CONVOY Spa-Bre
A (Gas) SUPPORT Spa-Bre

If this is not a valid set of orders, would it make a difference if the Fleet was in Spain (NC) instead?

Thanks! Sorry if this is confusing or vague at all--I'd be glad to explain anything if it would help someone answer.
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Re: Support order.

Postby presser84 » 21 Oct 2011, 16:19

Those orders are valid but what do you mean by this?
bansh33 wrote:If this is not a valid set of orders, would it make a difference if the Fleet was in Spain (NC) instead?


You can not convoy a fleet from Spain to Brest if that's what you are asking.

If you are asking about the army in Spain being in the North Coast do not worry about that. An army in a territory that has two coasts is not restricted as a fleet sometimes is. It can move to any adjacent territory or to a non-adjacent territory via convoy (as you are trying to do with the orders above) through any adjacent water way with a fleet(s) that has ordered a corresponding convoy or convoy chain.
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Re: Support order.

Postby bansh33 » 21 Oct 2011, 16:24

Nope, I got it. The Fleet being in Spain (NC) thing was just an alteration of the Fleet's position when performing a convoy movement. I was only attempting to ask that if the original set of orders was *not* valid, would it make them valid to switch the Fleet's position to Spain (NC) instead of Mid-Atl, keeping all other parts of that order set the same. I wasn't trying to convoy a fleet or move an army to the coast or anything. :)

Thanks for the clarifications!
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Re: Support order.

Postby rick.leeds » 21 Oct 2011, 18:02

I should also point out that you can't have two units in Spain, eg an army in Spain and a fleet at Spain's north coast. Only one unit in a space at a time. (Hope I haven't just muddied the waters.)
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Re: Support order.

Postby Cheruvim » 26 May 2012, 06:35

So I have a question about diagram 14 in the rule book.

Basically would both armies be disloged? The diagram is supposed to be showing the example of how a disloged army can't affect the territory from which the attack that disloged it came from. So that means it can't stop the army from Sev moving to Rum, but would both Rum and Bul armies need to retreat?

I think the answer is "Yes" and my reasoning is like this.. the attack on Rum = 2 the unit is not holding and = 1 So the attack on Rum wins. The attack on Bul = 3 and the unit is not holding so = 1 and thus both units are dislodged and must retreat, but what gets me is that if that is true, any attack that dislodges you while not holding causes your attack to fail, since supporting a hold on a unit that is not holding has no affect. I mean that makes the most sense to me, but I just want to make sure I have this right before I dive in.

Thanks,
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