Climate Change

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Re: Climate Change

Postby V » 02 Aug 2019, 01:24

Like most things in the affairs of humans, it’s only when pain starts that action suddenly becomes desirable. Sadly the pain of others usually doesn’t count towards that motivation. Even then I don’t think we can take effective corrective action, because apart from reducing carbon dioxide emissions we haven’t thought of much else to do. I doubt that will suffice.

So, bleak expectations on my part, but reaching sufficient worldwide consensus to achieve another outcome is almost certainly beyond us. I have no idea when all this might come to pass, but suspect my children will live to see it play out. It’s not the only problem we are causing to Mother Earth, but being the one that scares people it gets most attention.

The likely result? Those that can, will accommodate the effects of climate change & others will suffer. I very much doubt there will be a collective approach whereby the lucky help the unfortunate. History tells us that doesn’t happen. It’s not the first (or last) time humans have coped with self inflicted adversity. At the end of the day it won’t matter much what caused it, compared to “What do we do now?”
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Re: Climate Change

Postby Strategus » 02 Aug 2019, 09:51

BBC headline this morning: "July was marginally warmest month ever globally". Clearly this is not true, from the above data.
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Re: Climate Change

Postby V » 02 Aug 2019, 14:37

Strategus wrote:BBC headline this morning: "July was marginally warmest month ever globally". Clearly this is not true, from the above data.


Not that BBC headlines are often true :D
Climate change has become a business opportunity for many, which just adds to the credibility issues. There are even reports of “scientists” modifying historical temperature records lower, so as to show trends with increases!
It’s the sort of problem humans are very bad at dealing with, requiring large scale cooperation, integrity, intelligence, wisdom & probably a few other attributes that are always in short supply.
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Re: Climate Change

Postby beowulf7 » 02 Aug 2019, 18:03

I'm one of the guys trying to hold up the dam.

You guys are standing on the top telling me not to bother.

I'm not going to join you just yet :)
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Re: Climate Change

Postby schocker » 02 Aug 2019, 19:03

Creditability, integrity and factual reporting would help everywhere. They lost me long ago with this issue as they have over-hyped the nasty outcomes for decades with predictions that have just been folly. Now here in the USA, the Democrats are saying we only have 10 years and another one is saying it is too late and it is time to move to higher ground. I have yet to see data or anecdotal evidence that the oceans are rising. Maybe they are.
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Re: Climate Change

Postby V » 02 Aug 2019, 20:12

schocker wrote:Creditability, integrity and factual reporting would help everywhere. They lost me long ago with this issue as they have over-hyped the nasty outcomes for decades with predictions that have just been folly. Now here in the USA, the Democrats are saying we only have 10 years and another one is saying it is too late and it is time to move to higher ground. I have yet to see data or anecdotal evidence that the oceans are rising. Maybe they are.


The sea level rise was a classic, “oops miscalculated”. The climate scientists revised the extent of the rise a while back. As far as I understand it’s no longer an anticipated major problem (hence it’s not in the headlines as much).
Although environmental protection is a huge issue for me & I do as much as I can, this is the kind of BS that has jeopardised the collective approach necessary to prevent misfortune.
Last edited by V on 02 Aug 2019, 20:16, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Climate Change

Postby Strategus » 02 Aug 2019, 20:13

schocker wrote:Creditability, integrity and factual reporting would help everywhere. They lost me long ago with this issue as they have over-hyped the nasty outcomes for decades with predictions that have just been folly. Now here in the USA, the Democrats are saying we only have 10 years and another one is saying it is too late and it is time to move to higher ground. I have yet to see data or anecdotal evidence that the oceans are rising. Maybe they are.

Look at the graph in my original post, and tell me what will happen next?
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Re: Climate Change

Postby NoPunIn10Did » 03 Aug 2019, 00:26

If you go back to the article I linked, there’s a great deal of discussion of other factors (not present today) that caused temperature shifts at a level that outstrips the greenhouse effect. The big one is that at the range in time on the left side of that graph, the sun is estimated to have been ~4% cooler.

https://skepticalscience.com/co2-higher ... ediate.htm

“CO2 has not been the most significant driver of global temperatures over hundreds of millions of years of Earth’s history”
is not the same as
“CO2 is not causing a rise in global temperatures”

Atmospheric CO2 is one variable of many, but the important distinction is that since the industrial revolution, human beings have been responsible for converting underground carbon into atmospheric CO2 at a rate much higher than the processes which reverses that cycle.

It may not be the most important thing, but it’s the thing we can do something about.
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Re: Climate Change

Postby Strategus » 03 Aug 2019, 08:18

So in a system with a huge number of variables, like co2 levels, continental positions, water and air flows, sun temp, axis, rotation etc, what should the graph look like?
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Re: Climate Change

Postby NoPunIn10Did » 03 Aug 2019, 13:41

Strategus wrote:So in a system with a huge number of variables, like co2 levels, continental positions, water and air flows, sun temp, axis, rotation etc, what should the graph look like?


Image

Well this one isn’t plotting against temperature, but it does plot the combined impact of the sun and CO2. If you paired the dark line above with the blue line from the original graph (and scaled the vertical dimensions appropriately), the correlation between sun, CO2, and temperature becomes somewhat more apparent.
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