Collapse of "traditional" inevitable & intentional

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Collapse of "traditional" inevitable & intentional

Postby V » 07 Jul 2017, 16:01

Folks,

A thought I had while considering the 6 wonderful children my Wife & I have, that is probably controversial & definitely worth hearing your views upon.
One of my sons in very happily married, totally devoted to family in the traditional image of 1950's movies.
Another is a single Dad & incredibly good at it. My Granddaughter is a little angel & so well cared for by Dad.
Both sons appear completely happy with their situation & have no desire, current plans, to change it. One a devoted hubby, the other a devoted father.
Three of my Wife's children are in their 30's, two independent business people, very happy & successful, no kids, no spouses & no intention of changing that. The other is Mum of 3 in a spectacular marriage & completely happy in the family environment.

So, in 2 cases we have folks suited to & enjoying marriage/traditional family life & in 4 disinterested, probably unsuited & very much enjoying life without it.

Two thirds outside of what would have been considered "normal" just 50 years ago. Looking at the individuals it is clear why. The 4 with no interest in marriage (2 of each gender) are what I would term very "complete" individuals that have no need for a "partner" of any gender other than for companionship etc. Certainly not for sharing responsibilities that they are happy, confident & able to shoulder themselves. What purpose a spouse? What would they have to offer long term? Society has built these independent types of people that have no use or purpose for the traditional family, other than fun times during holidays. They have "better" things to do.
The other 2 (1 of each gender) are certainly no lesser individuals in the scheme of things, work very hard, prosperous, ambitious & successful, but clearly benefit from having a spouse in many ways, every day. They share the responsibilities of life & one suspects if they couldn't do so with their current partner, would find another with which they could. Family works for them.

My conjecture is that this is entirely normal & right. We cry & despair over the collapse of the "traditional" family, when it is no longer suited or wanted by the majority of folks it is supposed to benefit. We certainly shouldn't be surprised by it's fate when as a society we produce so many well rounded independent young people who have no use for a "partner". I have never quite got my head around the "collapse of family values" until this quick review of my own family to see it as completely normal, expected, inevitable & intentional.

It in no way reflects on folks ability to participate effectively in society, be parents, be ambitious & successful, provide great homes, it is just that a way of life that was so commonplace not so long ago is now to many superfluous.

Over to you guys:-)...
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Re: Collapse of "traditional" inevitable & intentional

Postby Don Juan of Austria » 07 Jul 2017, 16:24

I'm too young to really post here... But I'm interested to see what others have to say too. :)
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Re: Collapse of "traditional" inevitable & intentional

Postby Frenchie07001 » 07 Jul 2017, 16:50

My wife has two doctrates and is in the Army. I was a Social Studies teacher but am now going to be a stay at home dad for a few years. It's non traditional. I get looks from some people when they find out my wife is military and I am not and when I say I'm going to be staying home with my son. People equate it with being less of a man but I take care of my family in the ways that are currently needed even if I'm not bringing home the bacon.

To each their own and as long as everyone in the family is happy and healthy, there is no wrong way to do it.
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Re: Collapse of "traditional" inevitable & intentional

Postby Pootleflump » 07 Jul 2017, 17:45

Gosh. There's so much in that post.

Firstly congratulations to you both for having brought up kids who have turned out kind, confident adults. Happy in their own skins, being who they are - and leading the lives they want to.

That's pretty much about parenting, acceptance and unconditional love. I'll wage they had that in abundance when they were growing up.

Traditional, non traditional, marriage, single, career minded, stay at home parent. There is no right, no wrong.

Choices, happiness, kindness, being true to yourself, confidence, self esteem and respecting others. I susect they had tip-top role models. With those values, anything goes.

So much in life comes down to communication. Communicating what you want from life and being able to listen, understand and reciprocate. What you want can change and evolve over time. Influenced by a whole load of things. Where differences arise - negotiating as equals.

Thanks for the post, V. Makes all of us think and reflect!
But, I nearly forgot, you must close your eyes otherwise you won't see anything

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Re: Collapse of "traditional" inevitable & intentional

Postby I Love Italy » 11 Jul 2017, 18:51

Don Juan of Austria wrote:I'm too young to really post here... But I'm interested to see what others have to say too. :)


Same boat.
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Re: Collapse of "traditional" inevitable & intentional

Postby Guns of Brixton » 11 Jul 2017, 19:19

V wrote:Folks,

A thought I had while considering the 6 wonderful children my Wife & I have, that is probably controversial & definitely worth hearing your views upon.
One of my sons in very happily married, totally devoted to family in the traditional image of 1950's movies.
Another is a single Dad & incredibly good at it. My Granddaughter is a little angel & so well cared for by Dad.
Both sons appear completely happy with their situation & have no desire, current plans, to change it. One a devoted hubby, the other a devoted father.
Three of my Wife's children are in their 30's, two independent business people, very happy & successful, no kids, no spouses & no intention of changing that. The other is Mum of 3 in a spectacular marriage & completely happy in the family environment.

So, in 2 cases we have folks suited to & enjoying marriage/traditional family life & in 4 disinterested, probably unsuited & very much enjoying life without it.

Two thirds outside of what would have been considered "normal" just 50 years ago. Looking at the individuals it is clear why. The 4 with no interest in marriage (2 of each gender) are what I would term very "complete" individuals that have no need for a "partner" of any gender other than for companionship etc. Certainly not for sharing responsibilities that they are happy, confident & able to shoulder themselves. What purpose a spouse? What would they have to offer long term? Society has built these independent types of people that have no use or purpose for the traditional family, other than fun times during holidays. They have "better" things to do.
The other 2 (1 of each gender) are certainly no lesser individuals in the scheme of things, work very hard, prosperous, ambitious & successful, but clearly benefit from having a spouse in many ways, every day. They share the responsibilities of life & one suspects if they couldn't do so with their current partner, would find another with which they could. Family works for them.

My conjecture is that this is entirely normal & right. We cry & despair over the collapse of the "traditional" family, when it is no longer suited or wanted by the majority of folks it is supposed to benefit. We certainly shouldn't be surprised by it's fate when as a society we produce so many well rounded independent young people who have no use for a "partner". I have never quite got my head around the "collapse of family values" until this quick review of my own family to see it as completely normal, expected, inevitable & intentional.

It in no way reflects on folks ability to participate effectively in society, be parents, be ambitious & successful, provide great homes, it is just that a way of life that was so commonplace not so long ago is now to many superfluous.

Over to you guys:-)...


Thanks for your post and I intend to answer as best I can with some thought. But first - unrelated to your question but it's got me curious nonetheless - could you clarify a bit on your family? I've re-read the post and it seems that you've left out one of your offspring (it's almost like a math problem). You told us you have two sons
One of my sons in very happily married... Another is a single Dad...
and then you describe your wife's children:
Three of my Wife's children are in their 30's, two independent business people, very happy & successful, no kids, no spouses ... The other is Mum of 3 in a spectacular marriage


You then tell us that there are 4 that are disinterested in marriage (2 of each gender) and 2 that are happily married (one of each). You've identified the two married children (your son and your wife's daughter) as well as your single-Dad son and a pair of your wife's children that are no-spouse, no-kid. The latter two are both 'business people', but you haven't told us their gender.

That leaves one child unspecified. We know that that child + your wife's two business people children are 2 sons and a daughter and that none of them are into traditional family, but that's it (as far as I can tell). When you said that three were 'in their 30's, two independent business people' maybe that was a typo and you meant to say 'three independent business people'? Then the 2nd half of the sentence would imply that 'the other' happily married daughter was not in her 30's rather than not an independent business person.

Anyways, I'm a bit confused... :|
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Re: Collapse of "traditional" inevitable & intentional

Postby V » 11 Jul 2017, 19:47

Indeed, when I reread my post I saw room for confusion:-)

I have 2 sons, one married (& soon to be adoptive dad) & the other a single dad.
My wife has a son & 3 daughters. I caused the confusion here. There are 3 in their 30's no kids, no spouses & 2 are business people (1 of each gender). I omitted to provide detail on the third that works in the music industry.
The eldest daughter is the proud, happy Mum of 3, plus a hubby.
Despite the usual parental concerns, they all have splendid careers now, happy homes etc. In some cases it took a while...
Parents probably fret far too much on their children's life choices. It is remarkable how well they seem to turn out, even when/if completely different to one's own:-)
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