News, Media Reform and Fake News

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Re: News, Media Reform and Fake News

Postby nanooktheeskimo » 14 Jan 2017, 20:23

Mcarps424 wrote:The current story about Trump and Russia is just outrageous and it is shameful reporting on Buzzfeed's part.

I can't believe I'm defending BuzzFeed, but this was actually good reporting. They didn't report the dossier as being true, they said essentially "We don't know if the contents of the dossier are accurate, but we do know this is what is in the dossier, and that it's been circulating around the intelligence agencies and high level politicians, and there's even been a briefing on it given to the president and president-elect."

If they were publishing it as true without rigorous verification, then that would be bad journalism. That's not what they did. They published what was being talked about, said it was being talked about, and that's it.

I'm as surprised as anyone, but BuzzFeed actually handled the initial report as well as it could have been handled, and did the responsible thing. I fully expected it to be in listicle form when I first heard about it and read it was on BuzzFeed. But no, they did what a reporter is supposed to do in this situation--reported the news piece without sensationalizing it, and without claiming the actual dossier part was true, just that it was being talked about by high ranking officials.

Now, yes, there are some outlets that have run with it and taken it too far and presented it as true afterwards. I'm not defending that. But as far as BuzzFeeds initial report on it goes, that's just doing their job as a reporter.
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Re: News, Media Reform and Fake News

Postby Foibleson » 14 Jan 2017, 21:30

Basically it's the equivalent of Breitbart hypothetically publishing Pizzagate from the WikiLeaks emails and saying "We don't know if the contents of the dossier are accurate" and then Fox News running a major story about how Hillary secretly worships Satan and Pedesto likes sex with children. But in real life it was BuzzFeed and CNN
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Re: News, Media Reform and Fake News

Postby Carebear » 14 Jan 2017, 21:38

Foibleson wrote:Basically it's the equivalent of Breitbart hypothetically publishing Pizzagate from the WikiLeaks emails and saying "We don't know if the contents of the dossier are accurate" and then Fox News running a major story about how Hillary secretly worships Satan and Pedesto likes sex with children. But in real life it was BuzzFeed and CNN

I think there is a mucher larger gap in probability with Pizzagate than Goldengate. Don't think they equate at all.
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Re: News, Media Reform and Fake News

Postby nanooktheeskimo » 14 Jan 2017, 21:40

That's not really accurate though. Because there wasn't an intelligence agency briefing the POTUS and PEOTUS on "pizzagate"...if there had been, then yeah, sure. But this is something that both were briefed on, indicating that it's being taken seriously in some capacity (maybe not in a "this is true" capacity, but at least in a "this exists and we should be concerned about it" capacity). It's a false equivalency, because what makes it newsworthy isn't what's in the dossier or even whether it's true, but rather how the "major players," so to speak, in Washington are reacting to it. If intelligence agencies had been shown to be taking pizzagate seriously, then it would be comparable, but they weren't, so it's not.
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Re: News, Media Reform and Fake News

Postby Foibleson » 14 Jan 2017, 21:42

Carebear wrote:
Foibleson wrote:Basically it's the equivalent of Breitbart hypothetically publishing Pizzagate from the WikiLeaks emails and saying "We don't know if the contents of the dossier are accurate" and then Fox News running a major story about how Hillary secretly worships Satan and Pedesto likes sex with children. But in real life it was BuzzFeed and CNN

I think there is a mucher larger gap in probability with Pizzagate than Goldengate. Don't think they equate at all.


I think they're both false, but who knows for sure? Which would you think is more probable and why? It is a matter of who backs up the stories as credible or is it based on real evidence, such as WikiLeaks emails or other documents?
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Re: News, Media Reform and Fake News

Postby Foibleson » 14 Jan 2017, 21:45

nanooktheeskimo wrote: Because there wasn't an intelligence agency briefing the POTUS and PEOTUS on "pizzagate"...if there had been, then yeah, sure.


We were typing messages at the same time -

Sadly, even if an intelligence agency, not to mention a "mainstream" media company briefs someone, doesn't mean it is credible. Don't forget that the IRS harassed conservative organizations, denying non-profit status de facto through burdensom auditing, of organizations like the Tea Party and Christian organizations, asking people for their prayers and piles of financial documents. Why should another government entity like the intelligence organizations be any less politically biased? Also remember when Comey, head of the FBI, re-opened the investigation into Hillary Clinton weeks before the election? A lot of Democrats accused him of bias and influencing the election. Now people are trying to negate the validity of Trump's election.
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Re: News, Media Reform and Fake News

Postby nanooktheeskimo » 14 Jan 2017, 21:57

Foibleson wrote:
nanooktheeskimo wrote: Because there wasn't an intelligence agency briefing the POTUS and PEOTUS on "pizzagate"...if there had been, then yeah, sure.


We were typing messages at the same time -

Sadly, even if an intelligence agency, not to mention a "mainstream" media company briefs someone, doesn't mean it is credible. Don't forget that the IRS harassed conservative organizations, denying non-profit status de facto through burdensom auditing, of organizations like the Tea Party and Christian organizations, asking people for their prayers and piles of financial documents. Why should another government entity like the intelligence organizations be any less politically biased?

By that logic, none of those things are worth being reported on then?

You're taking the conversation further and further away from the point. Regardless of whether intelligence agencies have a bias or not, is it not worth reporting on what they're briefing the POTUS and PEOTUS on, when that information is available? Regardless of whether you yourself think this information is accurate or not, or if you think it shows a bias, how is it not worth reporting? They didn't report it as true, they reported it as "this is what's being discussed." I don't see how it's different than, to use a hypothetical, reporting that Trump was briefed on relations with, say, Japan, and this is what was said.

If you have newsworthy information and sit on it, you're being irresponsible as a journalist. Apparently now if you have newsworthy information and publish it, you're irresponsible too.
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Re: News, Media Reform and Fake News

Postby Foibleson » 14 Jan 2017, 22:38

Breaking news: U.S. intelligence agency briefs president on documents containing lies and fabrications, signifying this information is important for some reason. In other news, at the press conference, Trump having seen the briefing says it "was not worth the paper it was written on." Sounds very important!
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Re: News, Media Reform and Fake News

Postby LargeAnonymousMoustache » 15 Jan 2017, 01:33

Maybe I just live in a bubble, but I have yet to meet a single person who doesn't understand that golden gate may or may not be true. True or not, the answer ultimately won't surprise me anymore. What does surprise me is that someone could possibly equate an intelligence report with a crackpot theory from 4chan. Both of these sources have some degree of bias, but one is a haven for child pornographers, the other makes legitimate attempts at intelligence. Don't get them confused, folks.
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Re: News, Media Reform and Fake News

Postby Carebear » 15 Jan 2017, 01:54

LargeAnonymousMoustache wrote:What does surprise me is that someone could possibly equate an intelligence report with a crackpot theory from 4chan.

We live in a post-fact world where discerning between credible and disreputable sources doesn't matter anymore. As Newtie said, it doesn't matter what the facts are, its about how people feel.
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