What is PC?

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Re: What is PC?

Postby Guns of Brixton » 24 May 2017, 19:08

Foibleson wrote:Certain phrase and criminal investigation: recent example:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/mor ... 2e080ce9a9

Very famous scientist should be shunned according to mainstream media, for refusing to buy the PC dogma of equal intelligence:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... rize-medal

I can give more examples if you ask for something specific.


The Post article, I think, shows the nuance of the phrase Hopkins used being potentially inadvertent, but that the inflammatory nature of her rhetoric weakening the benefit of the doubt she should be given. The fact that there is a law on the books here that prohibits threatening speech that incites hatred based on religion is legitimate - it is by no means clear that her professed 'typo' rises to that level, but I would tend to agree that she has had a history of making reprehensible comments against immigrants and that the possibility that taking her rhetoric to the 'next level' of invoking the Holocaust is concerning.

As for the Rutherford article on James Watson in the Guardian, I think the author goes out of his way to praise the brilliance of Watson's discovery and call for people to make a distinction between the man's work and his views. He quite reasonably says that scientists are just as capable of having inspirational personal views as having deplorable ones (to use a recent phrase). He doesn't call to silence the man, but instead says to just ignore his rants and don't feel sorry for him. To me he takes a very reasonable tack - if you think Watson's ideas on race are coherent and compelling then by all means go buy his books or pay him to speak at your Elk's Club meeting. But unlike when PC runs amok, Rutherford essentially says just because he believes Rosalind Franklin is a better person than James Watson, he doesn't think it's appropriate to say that Watson stole her ideas and was a crank rather than a genius. Separate the two and keep an open mind.

For a Guardian article I find that attitude refreshing and it not a bit ironic that you cite it as PC run amok.
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Re: What is PC?

Postby Foibleson » 24 May 2017, 20:01

A more recent development in politics and worldview is the push to redefine gender. This extends into the sciences - and I am using this as an example of scientists who change their beliefs not based on science, but on politics -

Bill Nye the science guy (who isn't much of a real scientist, but is seen as such by many) in his old TV show stated that there were two genders, based on XX or XY chromosomes. Now in "Bill Nye Saves the World," his new show, he has these two videos (see the link) which promote gender fluidity - not to mention vanilla ice cream (not too subtly a metaphor for white people and the "normal") being presusred into an ice cream orgy:

https://vigilantcitizen.com/moviesandtv ... n-science/
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Re: What is PC?

Postby Crunkus » 24 May 2017, 20:37

Foibleson wrote:A more recent development in politics and worldview is the push to redefine gender. This extends into the sciences - and I am using this as an example of scientists who change their beliefs not based on science, but on politics -

Bill Nye the science guy (who isn't much of a real scientist, but is seen as such by many) in his old TV show stated that there were two genders, based on XX or XY chromosomes. Now in "Bill Nye Saves the World," his new show, he has these two videos (see the link) which promote gender fluidity - not to mention vanilla ice cream (not too subtly a metaphor for white people and the "normal") being presusred into an ice cream orgy:

https://vigilantcitizen.com/moviesandtv ... n-science/


You're making a claim here without backing it up or even making it explicit. You've insisted that both science and politics are redefining gender not based on science but based on politics. You offered nothing aside from showing that a change has occurred in how Bill Nye reports on gender.

What is being ignored? What "facts" are being suppressed? What and who are being threatened? What do you specifically take issue with and why? What politics are suppressing what actual science to the contrary?

Are you surprised that scientific, legal, and political understanding of a concept like gender has changed over time? What makes you conclude that this is ideologically driven if that is the perception? How well informed do you feel that you are on why other people have come to the conclusions that they have on the subject? What informs your views on the subject?

I mean scientifically, sexual and asexual reproduction, gender, gender expression, the lot of it, are really quite complicated concepts. If someone says they understand them fully, they're probably wrong, no matter who they are.

Again, this doesn't appear as offered to be an example of much. I'm still not understanding what systematic issue you feel is exemplified as "political correctness" and what harm you feel it is having on society. I'm trying to. But the accusation of a wide swath of articles as "examples of the problem of political correctness" looks a lot like what you are lamenting, a way to dismiss criticism without actually discussing the issues involved.
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Re: What is PC?

Postby JonS » 24 May 2017, 22:08

This thread under review by the moderators. While that review underway and until a consensus is reached, I'm temporarily locking the thread.

This locking action is a unilateral action by me, and may or may not be reversed by decision from the moderators.

I do not encourage any snarky or sarcastic comments on locking a thread on political correctness, despite whatever temptation to do so you may feel.
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Re: What is PC?

Postby gareth66 » 24 May 2017, 22:11

Seconded JonS. Right decision to temporarily lock whilst we consider the offending poster.
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Re: What is PC?

Postby JonS » 24 May 2017, 22:48

Okay. I think for now we are going to leave this locked for a brief period of time, but then may unlock to allow further debate.

There were several comments posted in this thread today which we believe violate the rules of the forum. Reference to the terrorist attack in Manchester was, we believe, meant to be purely provocative in nature. Additionally, several comments derogatory to racial groups violate restrictions against collective abuse. I haven't deleted all racial discussion - just a few of the most recent, most blatantly offensive comments.

The rules of the forum can be reviewed here: viewtopic.php?f=659&t=48796&p=817371#p817375

You will see that the forum rules make clear we extend a much broader leash to conversations in the "debates" section, and encourage users to steer clear if they do not wish to participate. However, it seems clear to us that today's comments crossed that line.

Please contact the "mods" group via PM with questions or concerns.
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Re: What is PC?

Postby JonS » 25 May 2017, 04:35

Thread unlocked. Have at it.

A few posts were removed, as mentioned above. We had complaints about the content, reviewed them, and agreed as a group that a few crossed the threshold into violating Forum rules. We're not looking to stifle discussion or debate, but we are obligated to respond when the posted Forum rules are broken.

Happy to answer any questions.
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Re: What is PC?

Postby Crunkus » 26 May 2017, 21:35

JonS wrote:Thread unlocked. Have at it.

A few posts were removed, as mentioned above. We had complaints about the content, reviewed them, and agreed as a group that a few crossed the threshold into violating Forum rules. We're not looking to stifle discussion or debate, but we are obligated to respond when the posted Forum rules are broken.

Happy to answer any questions.


Were only posts deemed to be in violation of forum rules removed, or were others removed as well? You seem to be saying pretty clearly here and in the earlier post that you only removed posts you collectively decided obviously were in violation of forum rules.

I've been told privately that I violated no rules.

My posts were removed. I've not received an explanation for why, other than the one you offered here...which I'm at a loss to see as relevant to my posts.
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Re: What is PC?

Postby Bromley86 » 26 May 2017, 23:18

It's quite interesting that we've had a perfect example of PC with the moderator action in this thread. I'm not criticising the mods; they're constrained by the environment. Nor am I endorsing the veracity of the removed claim. However, because of the fear of misuse of arguments by unpleasant sections of society, mainstream society and, more importantly, academics are contained from investigating phenomena.

Let's try another way. Are European Jews brighter than the average white European? Apparently, probably, yes. One only has to look at dog breeds to see that this is possible to achieve. Or at the vastly different physical characteristics between different human groups.

Anyway, purely coincidentally, I saw an excellent documentary by Trevor Phillips, former head of that white knight of PC thought and social engineering, the Commission for Racial Equality. He's had a Damascene conversion. Well worth watching, or listening to in the background, if you have a spare hour.
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Re: What is PC?

Postby WHSeward » 27 May 2017, 03:08

@Crunkus, as has already been explained to you by PM, your posts that quoted the discussion of race and Manchester were deleted along with the originals.

@Bromley86, the moderators did not feel constrained by the environment (whatever environment that you are referring to). This is about the kind of site and Forum we have. There are plenty of places on the internet for spewing or consuming bigotry or hate. PlayDiplomacy is not one of them.

If you want to have a thoughtful discussion of the significance or lack thereof of the existence of sub-populations with different mean IQs, go right ahead. The key word is thoughtful. The sophomoric posts in this thread were deleted because they missed the bar.

There really is no place at PlayDip at all for calling acts of murder justified on the basis of some purported political position held by neither the attackers nor the victims. That is just nonsense and offensive.
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