Brexit

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Brexit

Postby joe92 » 20 Feb 2016, 17:29

Cameron has returned from a debate with EU members having achieved a new status for the UK within the EU and set a date for a referendum for Britain to vote on whether to remain in the EU. On Thursday 23rd June this year, a year earlier than anticipated, we may learn that we are no longer an EU member state.

What are peoples thoughts on this? Should Britain stay or leave?
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Re: Brexit

Postby V » 20 Feb 2016, 17:48

I am Brit, but no longer live there. Ugly climate :-)

On balance I would say leave. I have always supported EU membership, but not now.
At one time the EU was an elite grouping of nations worth being a member of with enormous advantages. Now it is a giant bureaucracy of the mediocre.
Britain would be better off with the freedom to control their own destiny & take opportunities worldwide, without being hamstrung by Europe.
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Re: Brexit

Postby joe92 » 20 Feb 2016, 17:58

In what way are we hamstrung by Europe? I often hear that but I've never seen evidence of it. In fact there's a lot of evidence to the contrary.
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Re: Brexit

Postby Malevolence » 20 Feb 2016, 18:20

You are deeply hamstrung by the colossal economic benefits of having free trade on the continent, exceptions written into EU legislation for your country to be above the rules, and being able to dictate policy whenever you choose, simply be threatening to have a vote on whether to leave. ;)
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Re: Brexit

Postby V » 20 Feb 2016, 19:09

The most glaringly obvious (& topical example) is immigration policy. Does the UK want any part of the ongoing fiasco?
Other examples in my view would be intrusions on employment laws, European court of "human rights".
Thank the Dear Lord we were never conned into joining the Euro, what a disaster that is & only postponed (not resolved) with nations like Greece in bankruptcy.
Who wouldn't prefer to operate like Switzerland, maintain freedom of control & not mess with it.
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Re: Brexit

Postby IDontPlayThisGame » 20 Feb 2016, 19:32

I say we should stay in the European Union.


If not for any reason other than to make immigration queues quicker,

AND ANYWAY.

We SHOULD be supporting more Syrian Migrants than we currently are.
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Re: Brexit

Postby V » 20 Feb 2016, 19:45

The tragic Syrian issue is a case in point.
If Britain was independent of the EU it could control & probably successfully "support more Syrian migrants" as desired. Direct negotiation & management, with nations like Turkey, currently suffering overload.
What chance is there with the EU circus? Even if willing the UK would get half a million, Morrocans, Algerians, Libyans, Ethiopians, Somalians, (& a smattering of needy Syrians). A recent German style New Year party in London, not a pleasant thought. The EU are now truly incompetent & a boat anchor.
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Re: Brexit

Postby joe92 » 20 Feb 2016, 20:26

Senlac wrote:The most glaringly obvious (& topical example) is immigration policy. Does the UK want any part of the ongoing fiasco?
Other examples in my view would be intrusions on employment laws, European court of "human rights".
Thank the Dear Lord we were never conned into joining the Euro, what a disaster that is & only postponed (not resolved) with nations like Greece in bankruptcy.
Who wouldn't prefer to operate like Switzerland, maintain freedom of control & not mess with it.


Leaving immigration aside, the other points you mentioned are entirely our own fault. We did not have to accept the employment laws proposed by the EU. We did not have to accept the human rights bill proposed by the EU. France accepted the human rights except for a few clauses. Spain accepted it except for most of the clauses. It is down to our own useless politicians, namely Blair, for why we have been lumbered with so many laws by the EU. It is a myth peddled by the out campaign that we have no say on the matter.

Unfortunately immigration policy regarding other European member states is one of the few unconditional criteria's to being a member. We would undoubtedly have more control over rejecting other European countrymen from entering the country if we were isolated. It would not affect our ability to reject non-European countries. We already have complete control over that.

IDontPlayThisGame wrote:We SHOULD be supporting more Syrian Migrants than we currently are.


Agreed. But also, the US should be accepting way, way more Syrian migrants than they are. It is their failed and downright dangerous foreign policy which has created this fiasco. Arming the "rebels"? Training "rebels" who just join groups like Al Nusra immediately afterwards? Luckily, they have an ocean between them and the problem. An ocean most migrants can't afford to cross.

Senlac wrote:The tragic Syrian issue is a case in point.
If Britain was independent of the EU it could control & probably successfully "support more Syrian migrants" as desired. Direct negotiation & management, with nations like Turkey, currently suffering overload.
What chance is there with the EU circus? Even if willing the UK would get half a million, Morrocans, Algerians, Libyans, Ethiopians, Somalians, (& a smattering of needy Syrians). A recent German style New Year party in London, not a pleasant thought. The EU are now truly incompetent & a boat anchor.


The EU is not the problem here. It is NATO. Turkey bombs the Kurds and then cries to NATO to protect them when they fight back. They buy ISIS oil, or at least create avenues for the oil to get out of Syria and be sold, and do as little as they can possibly get away with to solve the crisis. Turkey, under Erdogan, is a monstrosity of a country and it is NATO which allows them to behave so. Being a part of the EU hasn't affected solving the problem.
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Re: Brexit

Postby V » 20 Feb 2016, 20:40

You make very valid points that our politicians have often been at fault, allowing EU problems to become ours as well, but will that ever change?
I don't think UK membership has been by definition a bad idea, but just now (& I fear the future) it offers more deficiencies than benefits.
British products & services have improved beyond measure since the 70's & there are many lucrative markets to exploit, other than the EU (were we to lose some trade).
Norway & Switzerland are the examples I look at, to see what is possible without them.
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Re: Brexit

Postby joe92 » 20 Feb 2016, 20:52

Norway and Switzerland (and Iceland) were never part of the EU and negotiated the European Free Trade Association outside of it. If we were to exit from the EU would there be no ramifications? Would we honestly be able to negotiate such an agreement straight away? I think the damage we would cause to the EU by leaving would see us shunned by Europe and we would find it very hard to climb back up to the position where we could enter EFTA. In my view, a more realistic option we would have if we left the EU would be to try and re-establish the commonwealth and create a free trade agreement through that. No easy task but probably easier than joining EFTA right after leaving the EU.
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