Jeremy Corbyn

A forum to seperate the more serious discussions from the lighter topics in Off-topic.

Re: Jeremy Corbyn

Postby rd45 » 27 Oct 2015, 17:06

It's tedious to have to point this out, but poll findings reported in newspapers do not always mean what they're spun to mean. The scare quotes around "increasingly incompetent" are right there in headline, which should probably tell you all you need to know about the reliability of the conclusions that the Independent would like us to draw.

They have form on this (as they all do, of course). See this for a previous debunking: http://www.leninology.co.uk/2015/09/our-feral-lying-good-for-nothing-media.html

See also this for more about the approach in the wider media: http://www.lrb.co.uk/v37/n20/paul-myerscough/corbyn-in-the-media
User avatar
rd45
 
Posts: 350
Joined: 13 Oct 2014, 15:41
Location: tethered to the logic of homo sapien
Class: Star Ambassador
Standard rating: 1302
All-game rating: 1329
Timezone: GMT

Re: Jeremy Corbyn

Postby beowulf7 » 27 Oct 2015, 18:07

It's similarly tedious to point out that not everything you hear, that you do not like, can be dismissed as solely lies.

I see the same thing again and again here - Team Corbyn (and by that I mean those who are emotionally "wishing" him to be the new hope - not just those whose sympathies lie on the left):
1) Claim every Labour supporter that is negative is not really a Labour supporter (in fact, some of them are barely fit to be humans according to previous posts - what was it? Whores??)
2) Views every poll or survey that goes agin 'em as dishonest (even the more liberal sides of the main press)
3) just a personal one here, but I find telling me "you can't trust the media!" and then pointing me at politically affiliated media seems a bit weak?

Yes, doubtless the right wing press are piling it on. I don't get why though, surely Labour under Corbyn, like Chelsea under Mourinho, is a boon to its opponents. I would have expected the Tories to do all they can to keep this guy around in order to achieve maximum damage (same logic that suggested Tory voters were voting him in)

But the news/views/propaganda is all pretty much one way - and that is negative. I'm still waiting for anyone to sketch out a reasonable story from where we are now to a Corbyn led government... please?
User avatar
beowulf7
 
Posts: 2431
Joined: 07 Jan 2009, 17:55
Location: Kent, UK
Class: Diplomat
Standard rating: (962)
All-game rating: (963)
Timezone: GMT

Re: Jeremy Corbyn

Postby Antigonos » 27 Oct 2015, 18:15

rd45 wrote:It's tedious to have to point this out, but poll findings reported in newspapers do not always mean what they're spun to mean. The scare quotes around "increasingly incompetent" are right there in headline, which should probably tell you all you need to know about the reliability of the conclusions that the Independent would like us to draw.

They have form on this (as they all do, of course). See this for a previous debunking: http://www.leninology.co.uk/2015/09/our-feral-lying-good-for-nothing-media.html

See also this for more about the approach in the wider media: http://www.lrb.co.uk/v37/n20/paul-myerscough/corbyn-in-the-media


The Leninology article is excellent and should be required reading. I had already read the LRB article and was going to recommend it myself today, The same issue also has a very interesting article on UK trade unions and the Conservative's pernicious Trade Union Bill (HC Bill 58) which is before Parliament.
Classicists Platinum, Oldies & soldier in Cavalry to the rescue
Samnites 3 draw Ad Arma
Prussia draw Ambition & Empire
USSR in 3 draw Blitzkrieg[
England solo Renaissance
Germany in 6 draw World Influence
Athens 4 draw Greek City States
Zaire solo Africa
Iran 3 draw ModEX II
Antigonos
Premium Member
 
Posts: 1505
Joined: 23 Jul 2013, 02:30
Location: New York
Class: Star Ambassador
Standard rating: (1483)
All-game rating: (1517)
Timezone: GMT-5

Re: Jeremy Corbyn

Postby rd45 » 27 Oct 2015, 18:32

beowulf7 wrote:It's similarly tedious to point out that not everything you hear, that you do not like, can be dismissed as solely lies.


Not lies, so much. More a story told for a certain purpose. Maybe a bit like my purpose in posting here, or yours.

beowulf7 wrote:I find telling me "you can't trust the media!" and then pointing me at politically affiliated media seems a bit weak?


I'm not daft enough to think that my sources are better than your sources - at least, not better in any way that I'd expect you to accept. For my own peace of mind, I have quite a well worked out relativist position about why I've come to prefer certain sources, even in the absence of any apparently objective reason to do so, but I won't bore you with it. Instead, perhaps, you'll allow me to make counter-claims in reply to your claims, and we can let the internet decide.

Antigonos wrote:The same issue also has a very interesting article on UK trade unions and the Conservative's pernicious Trade Union Bill (HC Bill 58) which is before Parliament.


Thanks Antigonos, I looked for that just now but I think it's for subscribers only & I'm too tight to pay. I'll have to see if I can find a printed copy somewhere...
User avatar
rd45
 
Posts: 350
Joined: 13 Oct 2014, 15:41
Location: tethered to the logic of homo sapien
Class: Star Ambassador
Standard rating: 1302
All-game rating: 1329
Timezone: GMT

Re: Jeremy Corbyn

Postby beowulf7 » 28 Oct 2015, 00:16

nods
User avatar
beowulf7
 
Posts: 2431
Joined: 07 Jan 2009, 17:55
Location: Kent, UK
Class: Diplomat
Standard rating: (962)
All-game rating: (963)
Timezone: GMT

Re: Jeremy Corbyn

Postby beowulf7 » 31 Jan 2016, 19:25

Looks like it's "all over" before it really began
User avatar
beowulf7
 
Posts: 2431
Joined: 07 Jan 2009, 17:55
Location: Kent, UK
Class: Diplomat
Standard rating: (962)
All-game rating: (963)
Timezone: GMT

Re: Jeremy Corbyn

Postby sjg11 » 06 Feb 2016, 21:39

For the record I have to agree with beowulf here. I can't see Corbyn winning an election. To be honest though, I'll admit I didn't see any of the potential Labour leadership candidates winning an election, with the possible exception of Burnham (and that would have been a long shot). So at least Corbyn will provide some opposition to a rightward travelling Tory government over the next 5 years.
One of the people in charge of the Mafia forum.
Telleo wrote:The mafia forum, to them,
Sir SJG's known as a gem,
He writes a good game,
and runs it the same,
Oh what a perfect GM!

Come on Arsenal!
User avatar
sjg11
 
Posts: 17011
Joined: 24 Dec 2010, 15:30
Class: Diplomat
Standard rating: (908)
All-game rating: (899)
Timezone: GMT

Re: Jeremy Corbyn

Postby joe92 » 20 Feb 2016, 17:49

I'm very late to the debate here, and I can't be bothered reading through 10 pages of discussion so I apologise if I repeat anything already said, but here's my tuppence:

I like Jeremy Corbyn. He stands for something. He believes in what he is saying and fights for what he thinks is right. He ignores his spin doctors and PR toads and does what is morally just. Remember the November Remembrance Day parade when every other politician rushed off to get their free dinner and champagne while he stuck around to talk to the veterans? That is someone I can respect. He is an absolutely refreshing character to see in Parliament. Labour actually stands for something now instead of being another version of Conservatives - who I regretfully voted for in 2010. I don't agree with Corbyn on a number of issues but I don't agree with Cameron/Conservatives on many more. Murdoch doesn't like him, and I'm much happier seeing a Labour leader who Murdoch dislikes than Murdoch likes - Blair. In fact, Murdoch disliking him is almost reason enough to like him. That man is almost a caricature of evil he is that evil. Corbyn wants to be rid of Trident which I strongly support. I don't buy into the myth that we can't defend ourselves without a nuclear submarine that we rent from the US and cannot launch the missiles of without the authority of the US. In fact, Trident is only a deterrent in the US's good faith. It is not a deterrent that we control and ergo is not a true deterrent for Britain. I hope, and believe, that Jeremy Corbyn can win the 2020 election. I will probably be canvassing on his behalf in the run up to the election, but there's a few more years to go yet so that could of course change. And lastly, having just gotten back from my first ever Labour fundraiser event I can tell you that he has support from a wide spectrum of supporters. The usual nut job lefty loonies were to be found, alongside owners of local businesses, students, retirees, and your usual eclectic mix of people with normal jobs.

To sjg11. I went to see a speech by Burnham in the run up to the leadership election. I can tell you with complete confidence that man stood for nothing. He would definitely not have won the 2020 election. Nobody wants the same old any more.

Image
Designer: Emergence, Modern Extended
GM'ing: Nothing

Platinum Classicist

Taking a break
User avatar
joe92
 
Posts: 1055
Joined: 02 Feb 2013, 00:26
Location: Leeds, GB
Class: Star Ambassador
Standard rating: 1106
All-game rating: 1721
Timezone: GMT

Re: Jeremy Corbyn

Postby WHSeward » 20 Jul 2016, 20:18

Mr. Hundal got it right, PM May's take on Corbyn is brutal.
"As a general truth, communities prosper and flourish, or droop and decline, in just the degree that they practice or neglect to practice the primary duties of justice and humanity." WHS

A member of the Classicists.

Ask me about mentor games. Send me a PM or post in the Mentoring forum.
User avatar
WHSeward
Site Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 2935
Joined: 29 Dec 2012, 22:16
Location: San Francisco, California, USA
Class: Star Ambassador
Standard rating: (1633)
All-game rating: (1647)
Timezone: GMT-8

Re: Jeremy Corbyn

Postby super_dipsy » 20 Jul 2016, 21:33

WHSeward wrote:Mr. Hundal got it right, PM May's take on Corbyn is brutal.

I'm not normally a fan of thread necromancy, but this just brought to mind the possibility of a truly bizarre situation in Parliament which would be frankly hilarious. There are lots of pundits telling May that when Corbyn is re-elected as Labour leader in September she should seize her chance with the opposition in disarray to call a snap election. But I think they miss the fact that it doesn't work like that. The Fixed Term Parliaments Act (2011) would require May to propose a vote of no confidence in her own government, and she would then have to 'win' that vote. And of course, with the Labour party in disarray there is no way they would support the no confidence motion. So you would have the government proposing no confidence in itself and the opposition voting against the motion .... :roll:
User avatar
super_dipsy
Premium Member
 
Posts: 12068
Joined: 04 Nov 2009, 17:43
Class: Ambassador
Standard rating: 1000
All-game rating: 931
Timezone: GMT

PreviousNext

Return to Debates

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests