Jeremy Corbyn

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Re: Jeremy Corbyn

Postby beowulf7 » 12 Oct 2015, 22:04

nods
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Re: Jeremy Corbyn

Postby beowulf7 » 20 Oct 2015, 01:11

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34577720

Ex-minister Lord Warner resigns Labour whip


Drip-drip-drip
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Re: Jeremy Corbyn

Postby beowulf7 » 24 Oct 2015, 14:45

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34625487

Lord Grabiner has become the second peer in recent days to resign the Labour whip in the Lords.

Lord Warner resigned the Labour whip, saying the party did not have a "hope in hell" of winning power under its new leader.

Former Labour cabinet minister Lord Mandelson has also criticised Mr Corbyn. Speaking on the BBC's Week in Westminster programme, he said the Labour leader was not "growing into the job at all".


And this,we remember, is the "honeymoon period"
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Re: Jeremy Corbyn

Postby Antigonos » 24 Oct 2015, 17:05

beowulf7 wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34625487

Lord Grabiner has become the second peer in recent days to resign the Labour whip in the Lords.

Lord Warner resigned the Labour whip, saying the party did not have a "hope in hell" of winning power under its new leader.

Former Labour cabinet minister Lord Mandelson has also criticised Mr Corbyn. Speaking on the BBC's Week in Westminster programme, he said the Labour leader was not "growing into the job at all".


And this,we remember, is the "honeymoon period"


Maybe a honeymoon is a good time for breaking with the whores that you used to hang out with. I mean Peter Mandelson! Give me a break. Next you will be quoting Blair himself.

"Mandelson was one of several individuals responsible for the rebranding of the Labour Party as New Labour "



In April 2013, Lord Warner announced he would vote with the Conservatives and Liberal Democrats in a key vote in the House of Lords on proposed NHS regulations that Labour claimed would enable companies to bid for almost all health services. He was the only Labour peer to do so.

In March 2014, Warner wrote an article for The Guardian newspaper suggesting that NHS users should pay £10 a month and £20 for every night in hospital Labour swiftly rejected these ideas. Shadow Health Minister, Jamie Reed, commented: "This is not something Labour would ever consider. We believe in an NHS free at the point of use, and a Labour government will repeal David Cameron's NHS changes that put private profit before patient care."

Lord Warner is a director of Sage Advice Ltd, and an adviser to Xansa (a technology firm) and Byotrol (an antimicrobial company) - all of which sell or are hoping to sell services or products to the NHS, according to website Social Investigations.

He also took up a position with Apax Partners – one of the leading private equity investors in healthcare, according to the Alliance for Lobbying Transparency


Jul 10, 2015 - Lord Anthony Grabiner has joined Goldman Sachs International
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Re: Jeremy Corbyn

Postby beowulf7 » 24 Oct 2015, 17:57

I'm not doubting at all that your views chime better with a very left wing organisation.

My point remains that this "Movement" is going nowhere and only serves to strengthen the Tory grip on Number 10.

I''m happy to keep on posting evidence that supports my position that Corbyn is unelectable - if you want to counter that (as opposed to restating your support) feel free.
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Re: Jeremy Corbyn

Postby Antigonos » 24 Oct 2015, 19:59

beowulf7 wrote:I'm not doubting at all that your views chime better with a very left wing organisation.

My point remains that this "Movement" is going nowhere and only serves to strengthen the Tory grip on Number 10.

I''m happy to keep on posting evidence that supports my position that Corbyn is unelectable - if you want to counter that (as opposed to restating your support) feel free.


We are talking at cross purposes.

A Labour Party that is run by and for people like Mendelson, Warner and Grabiner is not worth having why not simply call it the Lib-Dem with a wink to the left party or the Tories with shabbier suits Party. Goldman Sachs already has champions and gutting the NHS is something the Tories can do well enough with (or possibly now) without Lib-Dem support) so should Labour in or out of the House of Lords really include Warner as a member?

As to unelectable...now, in a year or two or in ten? I am not saying it will be easy or that it is certain but I am saying that it is worth working for and that it can offer a choice that has not been offered for many years. You seem all for choice in markets but opposed to providing it in politics.
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Re: Jeremy Corbyn

Postby beowulf7 » 24 Oct 2015, 22:35

You seem all for choice in markets but opposed to providing it in politics.


Based on what? You seem to want to treat me as a) a caricature for less left wing positions b) if you know what I believe.

Have I suggested am I against choice? Have I suggested Corbyn should not stand? Heck, I'm a guy that has voted "Stuffed Moose Head" (in truth) in a election and loves the fact we have the Monster Raving Loonies.

Indeed my fear is that, with Labour heading off towards Militant, the Communist party and the lefty fringe then choice is reduced.

Corbyn is unelectable - I think that is clear - but that does not mean he performs no function. I've done my "pulling on the blanket" analogy elsewhere and and I can see him being useful in countering a rightward travelling (permanently in power) Tory administration. But do I really want the Labour party to be in the same league as the EDL, the Greens, Respect, UKIP and the other other fringe parties? That's not a good thing

But too much of this thread has gotten "team" based
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Re: Jeremy Corbyn

Postby Antigonos » 25 Oct 2015, 02:39

beowulf7 wrote:
You seem all for choice in markets but opposed to providing it in politics.


Based on what? You seem to want to treat me as a) a caricature for less left wing positions b) if you know what I believe.

Have I suggested am I against choice? Have I suggested Corbyn should not stand? Heck, I'm a guy that has voted "Stuffed Moose Head" (in truth) in a election and loves the fact we have the Monster Raving Loonies.

Indeed my fear is that, with Labour heading off towards Militant, the Communist party and the lefty fringe then choice is reduced.

And I think that citing the responses of New Labour/Right Wing men like Mendelson, Warner and Grabiner as evidence that Corbyn is taking Labour into some loony left direction is quite telling as to your attitudes.

Corbyn is unelectable - I think that is clear - but that does not mean he performs no function. I've done my "pulling on the blanket" analogy elsewhere and and I can see him being useful in countering a rightward travelling (permanently in power) Tory administration. But do I really want the Labour party to be in the same league as the EDL, the Greens, Respect, UKIP and the other other fringe parties? That's not a good thing

[color=#800000]I don't know if Corbyn is electable but I think it is too soon to reach a conclusion. But once again I find your basic attitude telling. I think what has occured and in continuing to develop can be at very least an essential part of the process of Labour finding itself again, ceasing to be another slightly to the left party of corporate UK and becoming a real party of the left and of a potential new majority. You seem to think any genuine party of the left must be a party of the fringes. I disagree.[/color]

But too much of this thread has gotten "team" based
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Re: Jeremy Corbyn

Postby sjg11 » 25 Oct 2015, 18:30

I do have to suggest at this point that much of the debate may be due to different views on what "left-wing" means. Antigonos and beowulf seem to be using it in quite different ways, beowulf to mean something closer to left of the current British centre while Antigonos seems to be using "left-wing" in a more traditional sense. If that makes any sense...
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Re: Jeremy Corbyn

Postby beowulf7 » 27 Oct 2015, 11:33

Maybe but I'm not sure that's what's driving this.

I'm pretty sure I've not suggested that left wing policies are any better or worse than right wing ones.

What is "the left"? Well, he's already played the "no true Scotsman" card and is happily ejecting anyone to the right of Che Guevara from his party - mostly because they are "whores". But I'm not sure I've said that was wrong either (have I??)

AG's presented this thread as about being about choice. But I'm not convinced - nothing that Corbyn is proposing is new and it has all been available to "choose" for decades. My suggestion is that "unelectable-Corbyn" is moving the labour party to a fringe position and will shed support left, right and centre (well, not left, of course). I'm perfectly happy to see choice - but who is there that will chose "UnCor"? Yes, there are a number of voters "too left" for recent labour who will come back to the fold, there are a number of newly enthused first time voters who will see this as a cause worth fighting. But both groups have their dissenters and somehow, these groups have to outweigh the supporters of new labour, the swing voters, the "middle ground" and the wandering liberals who would appear to be horrified by what they are seeing.

Edit: just read this:

"The public believes that Labour looks “increasingly incompetent” under Jeremy Corbyn’s leadership by a margin of almost 2-1, according to an opinion poll for The Independent.Even one in four (26 per cent) of Labour's current supporters agrees with this statement, while 58 per cent of them disagree. Half the population as a whole (50 per cent) think that Labour looks increasingly incompetent, while 27 per cent does not."

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/jeremy-corbyns-labour-party-perceived-as-increasingly-incompetent-says-poll-a6709641.html
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