Jeremy Corbyn

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Re: Jeremy Corbyn

Postby Antigonos » 22 Jul 2016, 04:23

schocker2 wrote:

Why is it leftists just can't leave us alone?


Schocker2, I am a leftist and I love to eat meat. Not proud of it but I love it and it is built into us as humans to love it. But I am not going to go into some rant about vegan. What counts is I am a leftist. I despise New Labour and I I were British I would be voting enthusiastically for Corbyn in the leadership vote and in any general election.

By the way Tony Blair of New Labour fame should be indicted along with George Bush and others by the Hague court for waging a war of aggression and war crimes.
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Re: Jeremy Corbyn

Postby beowulf7 » 24 Aug 2016, 14:36

...and the Labour party continues to thrash itself to death. I'm sticking with my prediction - Labour party to fracture along lefty-left and central-left - possibly by end of year. Corbyn rhetoric about renationalisation plays well to the leftyleft but will not appeal to the demographic they need in order to win an election.

From what I can see, the Corbyn agenda is about returning to golden era of the 1970 with strong union power, long strikes, nationalised industries running inefficiently and at a loss, high taxes (to pay for it all) driving people to be tax exiles, jobs for life driving heavy industry to its grave. That was the affliction that lead to a place where Thatcherism was the treatment.

Long live the middle ground!
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Re: Jeremy Corbyn

Postby sjg11 » 24 Aug 2016, 15:34

beowulf7 wrote:...and the Labour party continues to thrash itself to death. I'm sticking with my prediction - Labour party to fracture along lefty-left and central-left - possibly by end of year. Corbyn rhetoric about renationalisation plays well to the leftyleft but will not appeal to the demographic they need in order to win an election.

From what I can see, the Corbyn agenda is about returning to golden era of the 1970 with strong union power, long strikes, nationalised industries running inefficiently and at a loss, high taxes (to pay for it all) driving people to be tax exiles, jobs for life driving heavy industry to its grave. That was the affliction that lead to a place where Thatcherism was the treatment.

Long live the middle ground!

I largely agree with this, particularly in terms of Corbyn not being able to win an election and a very possible split for the Labour Party (again).

I feel Corbyn is at his best when he's discussing the flaws of neo-liberalism/Thatcherism and is discussing how that approach has left a lot of people behind. There are significant sections of the population who, in terms of real wealth, are probably worse off than they were thirty years ago. I think he's also largely correct when he does so.

However I don't think his solution (go back to the politics of the 1970s) is workable either. Largely because I just can't see it ever being a successful electoral argument.

Then again I can't see a "Blairite" Labour being successful either due to the disenchantment which a lot of people feel towards that level of politics. Look at how Liz Kendall fared when trying to win the Labour leadership election.

And as for a middle ground option between the two... well look at how successful Miliband was in 2015.

So you've basically got one section of the Party which will struggle to win a General Election, another section of the party which is unlikely to be allowed to gain a leadership position by the Labour members and a middle ground between the two which is weak and struggles to make itself heard.

Labour needs something new.
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Re: Jeremy Corbyn

Postby beowulf7 » 24 Aug 2016, 20:34

That's a good point - if not Lefty-labour then what? As you said, Blairite labour seems to be deeply unpopular so that leaves us wondering what could succeed? I need to declare my staunch Liberal Democrat views (if you can be staunch about being laid back about most things) so a failing Labour party is not something that particularly worries me. However as a thought exercise...what would I do if I wanted to be swept to power by the slightly left of centre...

That's not something that I can do in 2 mins but... oh what the heck!

What do people care about?
Wealth - I'd suggest a policy (we can always back track later) that guaranteed all workers below the higher tax bracket a yearly rise of inflation plus 1%
Health - In return I'd introduce a second "stamp" but this in fact would be a NHS levy - maintaining free health care is key
The Regions - increase the amount of autonomy for the regions but fast track the infrastructure projects that might support the "northern powerhouse". Move parliament and the civil service out of London and create Special Economic Zones (low tax) to encourage regional growth.
Europe: reach out to other countries unhappy with the EU and start to create a new union based on good old British common sense rather than French protectionism. So we make a new EU and "do a premier league" to the old one
Countryside: scrap the common agricultural policy, make farmers use the land or lose it. If farming is not economic then end the way that our green and pleasant land is fenced off from most of us. That would mean some places get much less green (new homes in new towns)
Play all England games away from Wembley
Care: increase the amount of care available for the homeless, the mentally ill - house builders only to get permission to build all my new houses if they also build shelters, care homes or other such good stuff.
Invest directly in infrastructure - pay for extra trains bedecked with the Union flag, open factories in new industries under a gov.uk brand. Show the people that we are investing in them. All of these to be sold off when established and the money re-invested.
Encourage universities to become hot houses of development by reducing the amount they can charge students and then capping it for 10 years. They have to provide some income (nobody cares about the arts really when it comes to voting)
Xenophobia: Make passing a higher English test part of the requirement for benefits - this is a sop to the large amount of xenophobes out there.
Cake & Circus: make sure each region has its own festival like the Edinburgh fringe, Brittany's Celtic festival etc. So we CAN keep the arts going whilst entertaining the masses
Good services; blow up Old Trafford and build a "Museum of Scouse dominance" to highlight all the good things that have come from Liverpool against all the dross that is Manchester.

:) that's a start!
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Re: Jeremy Corbyn

Postby ferdy0 » 25 Aug 2016, 00:26

beowulf7 wrote:blow up Old Trafford and build a "Museum of Scouse dominance" to highlight all the good things that have come from Liverpool against all the dross that is Manchester.

:) that's a start!


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Re: Jeremy Corbyn

Postby Carebear » 25 Aug 2016, 01:19

Do the same for WHL, but instead build a museum to rear-view mirrors. That is where they will always be...
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Re: Jeremy Corbyn

Postby sjg11 » 25 Aug 2016, 16:44

beowulf7 wrote:What do people care about?
Wealth - I'd suggest a policy (we can always back track later) that guaranteed all workers below the higher tax bracket a yearly rise of inflation plus 1%

This would be a good policy considering the extent to which wages have stagnated over the past 10 years or so (my Mum's a primary school teacher whose wages haven't risen for about 10 years now).
Health - In return I'd introduce a second "stamp" but this in fact would be a NHS levy - maintaining free health care is key

I agree with this.
The Regions - increase the amount of autonomy for the regions but fast track the infrastructure projects that might support the "northern powerhouse". Move parliament and the civil service out of London and create Special Economic Zones (low tax) to encourage regional growth.

Increasing regional autonomy's important and necessary. I'd go further than this though and say Britain needs a complete structural democratic overhaul at this point. For example, the constituency which is "home" for me (Faversham and Mid Kent) has a 99% chance of returning a Tory MP while the constituency which is my uni constituency has a 98% chance of returning a Labour MP. It's surely got to be bad for British democracy if our entire electoral system is designed to cater to a small number of voters in places like Nuneaton? I'd support any switch to a new democratic system with proportional representation and far greater regional autonomy contained within it.

Infrastructure projects to continue the northern powerhouse need to continue. Creating a northern powerhouse is a sensible idea that needs the proper follow-through.

I wouldn't agree with moving Parliament out of London. It's still the capital and should be the seat of the central Parliament. Moving certain civil service departments out of London would seem sensible.

Europe: reach out to other countries unhappy with the EU and start to create a new union based on good old British common sense rather than French protectionism. So we make a new EU and "do a premier league" to the old one

This could work but would be a risky gambit. If done wrong it would simply serve to further piss off the countries that support the EU who are still important trading partners. And, frankly, I'm not sure I'd be able to trust the people who would currently be in charge of something like this to be able to pull it off.
Countryside: scrap the common agricultural policy, make farmers use the land or lose it. If farming is not economic then end the way that our green and pleasant land is fenced off from most of us. That would mean some places get much less green (new homes in new towns)

This wouldn't be a bad idea. Plus it wouldn't affect electoral chances since farmers overwhelmingly vote centre-right/right wing anyway.
Play all England games away from Wembley

I'd support playing friendlies away from Wembley. I like having a home stadium and Wembley works well as a home stadium for the national team.
Care: increase the amount of care available for the homeless, the mentally ill - house builders only to get permission to build all my new houses if they also build shelters, care homes or other such good stuff.

This I agree with.
Invest directly in infrastructure - pay for extra trains bedecked with the Union flag, open factories in new industries under a gov.uk brand. Show the people that we are investing in them. All of these to be sold off when established and the money re-invested.

I'd support bringing the railways back under public control. Privatising the railways is a policy which has not worked well. Like at all.

Factories in new industries would be sensible and could make some money for the Treasury while creating jobs.
Encourage universities to become hot houses of development by reducing the amount they can charge students and then capping it for 10 years. They have to provide some income (nobody cares about the arts really when it comes to voting)

As a student I strongly agree with capping uni fees.

I disagree the arts are useless to career prospects. I study History and fully intend to move into Law after I graduate, Law being a path which is perfectly accessible to a History graduate.
Xenophobia: Make passing a higher English test part of the requirement for benefits - this is a sop to the large amount of xenophobes out there.

I couldn't agree to this. Simply because of the potential for benefits to not be given to people who have no jobs and, for some reason, would be severely disadvantaged in any form of test like this.
Cake & Circus: make sure each region has its own festival like the Edinburgh fringe, Brittany's Celtic festival etc. So we CAN keep the arts going whilst entertaining the masses

Can't disagree with this.
Good services; blow up Old Trafford and build a "Museum of Scouse dominance" to highlight all the good things that have come from Liverpool against all the dross that is Manchester.

Blowing up Old Trafford would clearly be a good thing. We Gooners have suffered far too many defeats there recently. Stamford Bridge could use a good demolishing as well. As a Gooner I actually dislike Chelsea more than I do Spurs.
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Re: Jeremy Corbyn

Postby sjg11 » 25 Aug 2016, 16:45

Carebear wrote:Do the same for WHL, but instead build a museum to rear-view mirrors. That is where they will always be...

I'd prefer to blow up Stamford Bridge to WHL. I find Chelsea far more irksome than I find Spurs.
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Re: Jeremy Corbyn

Postby Carebear » 25 Aug 2016, 17:33

sjg11 wrote:
Carebear wrote:Do the same for WHL, but instead build a museum to rear-view mirrors. That is where they will always be...

I'd prefer to blow up Stamford Bridge to WHL. I find Chelsea far more irksome than I find Spurs.

Is that because they have beaten in matches we should have won?
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Re: Jeremy Corbyn

Postby sjg11 » 25 Aug 2016, 18:22

Carebear wrote:
sjg11 wrote:
Carebear wrote:Do the same for WHL, but instead build a museum to rear-view mirrors. That is where they will always be...

I'd prefer to blow up Stamford Bridge to WHL. I find Chelsea far more irksome than I find Spurs.

Is that because they have beaten in matches we should have won?

That. There's also Ashley Cole. And the Mourinho connection. And I'm not massively fond of John Terry either. Oh and let's not forget Diego Costa. You see my point?
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