Jeremy Corbyn

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Jeremy Corbyn

Postby Antigonos » 18 Aug 2015, 02:53

It seems there is a real panic over Corbyn among the "right sort of people and I suppose the final result will in some way be another version of what happened in Greece but until it is over I hope the Left pulls together.
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Re: Jeremy Corbyn

Postby super_dipsy » 18 Aug 2015, 08:12

Many neutrals I know here in the UK love the idea of Corbyn winning. It is something to do with the British sense of humour; he only got onto the ballot sheet because a number of MPs supported his nomination even though they did not want him and did not plan to vote for him. This therefore would make it highly amusing if it comes back to bite them! Added amusement comes from the fact that the leadership voting rules were changed to allow anyone who pays 3 UK pounds to get a vote; the theory was that this makes the contest more open and inclusive, but the idea that the party machine would be able to vet these voters to ensure they are true labour supporters was again somewhat laughable. As a result, there are claimed to be many thousands who are not labour voters and never have been but who want a say in who leads the Labour party. There are even rumours in the press that quite a few Conservatives have paid up for the chance to vote for someone they think will be a liability (from their point of view).

I know, we are a sad race indeed to find this sort of thing amusing. I'm sure we should all be dwelling on the implications of a Corbyn win on UK politics and whether it is a good or bad thing, but at least on the surface it is nothing short of :lol:
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Re: Jeremy Corbyn

Postby Peanut » 18 Aug 2015, 10:30

As dipsy says the mechanics of this vote have become a sham, it's estimated that up to 10% voters aren't actually Labour supporters.

Added to that, the conspiracy theories are flying around - one that made me smile is that, a Corbyn win will result in a backbench revolt in about 6 months time, which will pave the way for David Miliband (brother of the previous leader) to run for the leadership. Who said politics was boring! :lol:
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Re: Jeremy Corbyn

Postby rd45 » 18 Aug 2015, 14:44

There's nowhere on the ballot paper to say WHY you're voting as you are. Only a box to put your cross in. Tactical voting has long been a feature in all our elections, and this one is no different. I really couldn't care less if some Tory votes for Corbyn for the "wrong" reasons. The mandate has been extended so as to be as democratic as possible, and all the votes count equally.

I doubt that Liz Kendall shares that view, though. Full disclosure: I am bang in the middle of Corbyn's target market.

Every day in the paper (by which I mean The Guardian, of course), there's a new story about how some Labour has-been or never-was or defunct Blairite hanger-on has dreamed up a new way to derail the process. Maybe I was born optimistic, but I'm not seeing any of those stalling tactics working out for them this time. I think this one will run its course, and Corbyn will win. Exactly what it is that he ends up leading - well, that's a different question. Possibly only some portion of the current Labour party. But - the world didn't end when the SDP was formed in 1983 or whenever, and nor will it now.

Keep the faith.
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Re: Jeremy Corbyn

Postby Antigonos » 18 Aug 2015, 18:49

Speaking from the US and feeling I should know more (though I have been trying to follow events) I am struck by how a leadership selection process that was designed in part to diminish trade union influence is now being attacked because it has paradoxically generated enormous public interest and added participation. This is a bad thing?

Cooper's anti Corbyn ranting disqualifies her and Burnham,though better, strikes me as a weak and second rate figure. The worst of course is Kendall who says she not only "understands" business but would be 'the champion of people who take a risk, create something and make a success of it'. Her New Labour thinking on economic policy, privatization and EU-as-US-lite foreign policy is what has brought Labour to the sorry point where it may simply deserve to die and be replaced by a new party of the left however long and painful the process might be.

Old Labour is gone and I do not believe that it can simply be rebuilt on the old trade union roots with an infusion of identity politics but if it can be reconstructed as a genuine vehicle for left (and "progressive") political views and aspirations won't this give the people of the greater choice in determining what their future should be? It is nice for Scotland to still have a more or less old style social democratic SNP but this is not enough for Scotland and is certainly not what the UK needs if it is to remain the UK in some form.

Corbyn's membership in the Socialist Campaign Group and history of activity on Palestinian issues and with
Amnesty International, the Campaign for Nuclear Disarmament and the Stop the War Coalition would be enough for me to vote for him given the chance and when you add his positions in favor of renationalisation of public utilities and railways, abolishing university tuition fees, nuclear disarmament (including cancellation of Trident) and reversing cuts to the public sector and welfare the choice seems clear. He is also free of the typical knee jerk NATO expansion cheerleading of most Labour MPs. Among the current candidates I have not doubt that he deserves to be selected as the new leader of the party that calls itself Labour.
Last edited by Antigonos on 18 Aug 2015, 20:31, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Jeremy Corbyn

Postby Jegpeg » 18 Aug 2015, 19:24

Added participation is a good thing if it includes more people that are part of relevant population.
Having a higher proportion of the UK vote in a general election is a good thing. Getting a larger turnout in a UK general election by giving the population of China the vote is not. Allowing the Tories to elect the next leader of the Labour party is akin to letting the Germans decide who our government should be during WW2.

Having said that I do not know how widespread Tories joining the labour party is. There has been a loy of new members recently but whether these are labour voters deciding the lower fees mean they can now decide to join the party or Tory voters up to mischief is impossible to say.

Of course it could all backfire in turn on the Tory voters as Corbyn sweeps to power on a Syriza style populist anti-austerity campaign.
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Re: Jeremy Corbyn

Postby ExiledAtHome » 18 Aug 2015, 19:49

Am I to understand that UK rules require a fee for voters to cast their vote for party leader?
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Re: Jeremy Corbyn

Postby Antigonos » 18 Aug 2015, 20:08

Jegpeg wrote:Added participation is a good thing if it includes more people that are part of relevant population.
Having a higher proportion of the UK vote in a general election is a good thing. Getting a larger turnout in a UK general election by giving the population of China the vote is not. Allowing the Tories to elect the next leader of the Labour party is akin to letting the Germans decide who our government should be during WW2.

Having said that I do not know how widespread Tories joining the labour party is. There has been a loy of new members recently but whether these are labour voters deciding the lower fees mean they can now decide to join the party or Tory voters up to mischief is impossible to say.

Of course it could all backfire in turn on the Tory voters as Corbyn sweeps to power on a Syriza style populist anti-austerity campaign.


I have no argument with the contention that the current system of leadership selection results in the gain of greater participation being balanced in part with possible participation people who are in no sense "Labour" voters. The prior system was also far from perfect and as I indicated in my prior post I think the new system was designed in part to diminish trade union influence in the process which is certainly questionable for a "Labour" party. I think that much if not most of the attacks on the new system are motivated by an essentially "New Labour" and pro-business establishment that thought that the new system would enable them to manage the selection process and produce the "responsible" result.

I suspect that there is far less Tory "infiltration" going on than is being claimed by some and if, as I suspect, many new Labour members are being drawn into participation in a process from which they felt excluded I think it is not only a good thing but that it might lead to Labour becoming more of a Syriza style populist party and it would be wonderful and ironic if it led to a a successful anti-austerity party coming to power in UK. It might even bring back a few of the the Old Labour votes who have turned to UKIP recently. Anti-Austerity and Anti-Trident beats primitive anti-immigration in my book.

Meanwhile maximum points to Jagpeg for giving this thread the obligatory Nazi Comparison. I loved it.
Last edited by Antigonos on 18 Aug 2015, 20:28, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Jeremy Corbyn

Postby super_dipsy » 18 Aug 2015, 20:24

ExiledAtHome wrote:Am I to understand that UK rules require a fee for voters to cast their vote for party leader?

This is in the new leadership election rules for the Labour Party, as introduced by Miliband (E). Anyone can register for 3 pounds and then vote. Technically, they can be refused if it is shown they are not Labour supporters (how?) but otherwise they get to vote.

One interesting statistic; the largest UK Union members make up 18% of the registered / affiliated voters. So although there may be some naughty conservatives in there, the unions should still control the outcome.
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Re: Jeremy Corbyn

Postby ExiledAtHome » 18 Aug 2015, 21:06

This is in the new leadership election rules for the Labour Party, as introduced by Miliband (E). Anyone can register for 3 pounds and then vote. Technically, they can be refused if it is shown they are not Labour supporters (how?) but otherwise they get to vote.


So, this is a Labour Party policy?

As I understand it, voter registration in the UK is compulsory. So, certainly the £3 fee couldn't be imposed for general voter registration. Is this fee only for eligible voters who wish to register to vote for the leader of the Labour Party? In an actual general election, no such fee is imposed, is it? Do any other UK parties impose this fee to register to vote for party leader?
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