Freedom of Speech

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Re: Freedom of Speech

Postby schocker » 07 Sep 2019, 20:50

I wasn't speaking to you B. It WH Seward I referred to. So I can see how you didn't follow. Sorry for your misunderstanding.
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Re: Freedom of Speech

Postby beowulf7 » 08 Sep 2019, 20:24

:)
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Re: Freedom of Speech

Postby Danivon » 13 Nov 2019, 14:08

Is this thread dead, or is it worth opening up again?
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Re: Freedom of Speech

Postby schocker » 24 Nov 2019, 01:09

Set it up again....but the site as in the debate section seems to have died
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Re: Freedom of Speech

Postby Danivon » 25 Nov 2019, 15:58

Well, I wanted to say that having read the thread, there seemed to be a conflation of "censuring" and "censoring".

The latter is stopping your speech, but the former is criticism or repercussions of it.
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Re: Freedom of Speech

Postby V » 11 Dec 2019, 22:51

I have a couple of thoughts on Freedom of Speech, it’s limitation & how this has impact (or otherwise).
Let’s take a dictatorial regime (Communist East Germany will do for discussion) I’m sure Freedom of Speech was negligible although I never lived there & many things not said as a result.
Can you imagine Bob Dylan, Martin Luther King or many others lasting long under such repression? So we don’t get “Blowin in the Wind” or “I have a dream” These are the impacts of such limitations.

But did the beliefs & fundamental identity of East Germans change? Probably not, considering how they reacted when the Berlin Wall came down. I’d say they merely gave lip service to government policy for decades (not having a choice) but immediately upon an opportunity, they demonstrated their true feelings with words (& sledge hammers).
There are some things that gags cannot impact. Fundamental beliefs.

So making it more topical we are encountering “limitations” on Freedom of Speech regarding hate speech.
Let’s use racism for discussion. What can be changed given the above examples?
We can prevent certain words being used publicly without incurring wrath. The “N word” or “K word” in Southern Africa.
We can address some aspects of anti-semitism or islamophobia, preventing them being freely spouted in public.

What can’t we impact? Racism itself will not change by limiting what is said about it. As East Germans never thought the Berlin Wall was anything other than a prison, for generations.
Our views on other races, nationalities are not determined by bad words said or not said. It depends on experiences when those “others” are encountered.
If despite doubts every time you meet someone of the “other” category it’s a pleasant friendly event, it’s real hard to be racist towards them.
If despite being told & believing everyone is “the same”, each encounter with the “other” is adversarial, confrontational or unpleasant, then forming a negative opinion about that group is going to happen.
What is allowed/disallowed to be said will not impact the resultant beliefs, only whether beliefs are expressed, or lip service used as a last resort.

Personally I think limiting Freedom of Speech has more risks than benefits, but it doesn’t really matter in the end, as the East Germans proved with their sledge hammers.
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Re: Freedom of Speech

Postby Strategus » 11 Dec 2019, 23:00

Can we agree that Islamophobia and anti-Semetism are not racism? They are religions, not races.
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Re: Freedom of Speech

Postby V » 11 Dec 2019, 23:08

Strategus wrote:Can we agree that Islamophobia and anti-Semetism are not racism? They are religions, not races.


Agreed. Didn’t intend to lump them in as a race issues.
More that the anti “hate” speech movement seems to treat them equally in terms of suppressing the type of things allowed/disallowed to be said.
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