Mafia CLVIII - Push and Pull Mafia AAR - Team 2 Victory

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Mafia CLVIII - Push and Pull Mafia AAR - Team 2 Victory

Postby condude1 » 06 Feb 2017, 06:33

Sooo, that was painful to watch. I want to say firstly, I apologize, that wasn't my best run game. Two mistakes in adjudication and forgetting to update some things was not great. I also messed up balancing a bit.

Day 1: I'm excited for this game to start, I like the mechanic I'm running, and want to see it play out. I figured that random pushes were probably the town's best bet, but there were several other plans that were competitive: perfect! And the Happymeal slips. A complete and utter slip, with no way out. Telleo finds the right plan to shut down the mafia. There is the odd call for the scum to concede, or for me to call the game (I will NEVER, EVER do this, unless the game is irreparably compromised). Poor dodgy. He goes for the least ambitious plan (giving the town full knowledge of their numbers and conceding the NK), which I think is crazy (although I don't say it).

Day 2: The town's apathy is showing. MHsmith is lynched, which I don't find a particularly bad lynch. I can at least see why he's getting lynched, and don't entirely disagree with it. I probably would have joined that lynch. However, the town is overwhelmed by the "Game is over, when will the mafia concede?" sentiment.

Days 3-7: The town goes down the rabbit hole. Dodgy just sits on the sidelines, watching the town rip itself to pieces. People clash, no one cares who's lynched, using the lynch more to spite people than to actually catch scum. Dodgy just chills out. The lynches get progressively worse and worse, until dodgy is literally the most townread player in the game, and everyone else is trying to make sure those other jerks die before they do. Dodgy, I'm sure, laughs heartily many times.

I agree that the game was lost by the town, not won by the mafia, but still, dodgy did amazingly given the situation he was in. It's also not fair to put the blame on any one player's shoulders. There was an air of apathy throughout the town that absolutely crushed them. The people leaping on wagons lazily were as at fault, if not moreso, than the players leading the charge.
Last edited by condude1 on 06 Feb 2017, 06:57, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Mafia CLVIII - Push and Pull Mafia AAR - Team 2 Victory

Postby Subotai45 » 06 Feb 2017, 06:40

Wow, congrats.
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Re: Mafia CLVIII - Push and Pull Mafia AAR - Team 2 Victory

Postby mhsmith0 » 06 Feb 2017, 06:42

Dodgy did just enough to win I guess, but to be blunt this was game throwing by town, not a win by mafia. Crunkus (hard tunneling townies, creating an environment where scum hunting was extremely difficult, both via thread spam and the nature and tone of his posts - "if it's dodgy or zz I don't care" at the end being one example in partuclar) and sjg (hard town reading scum and doing basically nothing else of note) combined to destroy the town, with sub making an awful game end hammer when there is literally never ever ever a reason to rush it in that situation.

My lynch was bad, the shadowfriend lynch was utterly disgraceful, and pretty much the whole surviving town seemed happy enough to be lazy the last couple game days.

Shadowfriend and zoomzip were fine this game, telleo has enough positives to counter some negatives, and dodgy did just enough to coast to a win in a town that never bothered to push him or demand much of anything from him. Everyone else had a bad or really bad game.
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Re: Mafia CLVIII - Push and Pull Mafia AAR - Team 2 Victory

Postby Subotai45 » 06 Feb 2017, 06:48

I was told by two of the most experienced (if not THE two most experienced) players that I was under no circumstances to lynch dodgy. If you look at sjg and crunkus's experience and ability, and put it next to mine, it made a lot more sense to be blindly trusting. Given that the only new piece of information since that order was a really strange deviation from Telleo, I think I made the logical (although clearly incorrect) choice.

And with the "end game hammer" - under direct orders by two confirmed and experienced town that I was 100% to lynch telleo - sitting around for two days did not appeal. I'm not trying to shift the blame onto them - telleo was the only one to call dodgy and that was on the last day when she knew by process of elimination it couldn't be her - but I'm tired of being called out in AARs, and this time I don't think I deserve it.
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Re: Mafia CLVIII - Push and Pull Mafia AAR - Team 2 Victory

Postby mhsmith0 » 06 Feb 2017, 06:51

The game end hammer without giving her a chance to talk was objectively bad play. Not as bad as play exhibited by some others but it was both bad and pointless. Posting "here" locks you in as town, and then you can observe, engage and see if there's reason to change your mind.

The only reason to end game there like that is boredom or being 100% lock sure that telleo was scum. First reason is bad, second reason should never apply, because you always listen and use your own judgement.

And to be clear, I blame you less for this than crunkus and sjg, both of whom had really horrible games. But what you did was really bad in and of its own right, and I would suggest that you take it as a learning moment. You're always responsible for your own judgement, and you can't just pass the buck to other people and divest yourself of responsibility.
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Re: Mafia CLVIII - Push and Pull Mafia AAR - Team 2 Victory

Postby Subotai45 » 06 Feb 2017, 06:55

You're a better player than me, but I've also gotten the impression you're a bit of a maverick, and you'd go off on your own. Whereas I am a below-average player was executing a will that made it very, very clear, that there was a much greater danger of Telleo/Crunkus convincing me to vote dodgy incorrectly than dodgy actually being scum. I was trying to mitigate that danger.
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Re: Mafia CLVIII - Push and Pull Mafia AAR - Team 2 Victory

Postby condude1 » 06 Feb 2017, 07:04

Remember that it's a LOT easier to sit on the sidelines and criticize the play of players in an F3 situation than it is to be in that situation. You played reasonably well from what I saw, Subotai.
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Re: Mafia CLVIII - Push and Pull Mafia AAR - Team 2 Victory

Postby Subotai45 » 06 Feb 2017, 07:08

I think the problem is that we just kept thinking "we still have ___ lynches left" and despite calls to "solve this today" there was never any real urgency. We kept thinking there was more time, and then there wasn't.
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Re: Mafia CLVIII - Push and Pull Mafia AAR - Team 2 Victory

Postby mhsmith0 » 06 Feb 2017, 07:12

Subotai45 wrote:You're a better player than me, but I've also gotten the impression you're a bit of a maverick, and you'd go off on your own. Whereas I am a below-average player was executing a will that made it very, very clear, that there was a much greater danger of Telleo/Crunkus convincing me to vote dodgy incorrectly than dodgy actually being scum. I was trying to mitigate that danger.

Oh it's understandable, but you should always give someone that chance. Also, in the partuclar instance, mechanically telleo and dodgy could have killed each other if you no lynched, and that's auto win. always give someone a chance to change your mind. Sometimes good things shake out.
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Re: Mafia CLVIII - Push and Pull Mafia AAR - Team 2 Victory

Postby mhsmith0 » 06 Feb 2017, 07:24

Subotai45 wrote:I think the problem is that we just kept thinking "we still have ___ lynches left" and despite calls to "solve this today" there was never any real urgency. We kept thinking there was more time, and then there wasn't.

That part in partuclar was a collective town failure and I def. don't think you deserve special blame, and frankly you deserve much less on that front than the others alive given that, as you noted, you're not actually a veteran at this.
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